tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post2893477058900068718..comments2024-02-10T23:32:15.095-08:00Comments on TRISHUL: Double-Edged Dissuasive Airpower DeterrencePrasun K Senguptahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00369323150694008798noreply@blogger.comBlogger119125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-72223709916565535812009-10-03T10:06:04.922-07:002009-10-03T10:06:04.922-07:00Why hasn't Elta incorporated AESA technology i...Why hasn't Elta incorporated AESA technology in its UAV SAR payloads? Couldn't it save a lot of weight? Is it a matter of price?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16905910031853154585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-25804062359205643142009-10-03T09:44:08.645-07:002009-10-03T09:44:08.645-07:00To Hacker: Heron 1 was the first-generation UAV wi...To Hacker: Heron 1 was the first-generation UAV with a simple chin-mounted FLIR turret while Heron 2 can accommodate both the FLIR turret as well as a belly-mounted EL/M-2022(A) search radar for maritime surveillance. The heron TP is powered by a single Pratt & Whitney Canada turboprop (instead of the Rotax-type engines on the Heron 1/2) to make the airframe more stable when flying at high-altitudes over mountainous terrain. And thanks to the turboprop engine, the Heron TP can also be employed as a UCAV armed with air-to-ground guided weapons (just like the Predator and Reaper). <br />The Tejas Mk2 will have an on-board IRST, as well as Litening-3 laser designator pod (which also has a FLIR sensor and daytime TV camera). <br /><br />To Anon@3:52AM: It is the entire Harop system (including its launcher, up to six UAVs and a ground control station) that costs US$20 million (your figure), and not just the solitary UAV. If six such UAVs can locate and destory a Battery of tracked self-propelled or even towed 155mm howitzers, then the entire Harop system's costs are more than fully recovered.Prasun K Senguptahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00369323150694008798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-57496071690449309392009-10-03T03:52:40.188-07:002009-10-03T03:52:40.188-07:00To Prasun: How many terrorist have US$10 million b...To Prasun: How many terrorist have US$10 million bounty on their head?<br /><br />I think its total waste of money to buy such a self destructive UAV which costs US$10 million (50 crores) a piece.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-17293125942650179342009-10-03T01:45:49.878-07:002009-10-03T01:45:49.878-07:00thanks prasun da for your answer
i want to know th...thanks prasun da for your answer<br />i want to know the difference between HERON-1,HERON-2 and HERON TP.<br />and<br />is there any FLIR(forward looking infared) and IRST(infared search and track) in LCA Tejas MK.2N3SD!Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11510280563412275816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-30185175552747108152009-10-02T19:55:38.417-07:002009-10-02T19:55:38.417-07:00Prasun da,
Thanks for answering my query.
You ha...Prasun da,<br /><br />Thanks for answering my query.<br /><br />You have written that discussions are on-going for a total of 90 more IRKUT Corp-built Su-30MKIs.So does that mean that if the deal goes through the IAF will have 50+140+40+50+40=320 Su-30MKIs.<br /><br />What percentage of composites,both carbon fiber composites glass reinforced composites will be used to build the airframe of the Tejas Mk2 M-MRCA?The Tejas Mk1 LCA employs C-FC materials for up to 45% of its airframe by weight while the Typhoon employs 82% composites(70% carbon fibre composites + 12% glass reinforced composites).I think the composites % to be used on the Tejas Mk2 M-MRCA will be the same as that of the Typhoon.What do you say?<br /><br />Is it true that the PAK-FA will be built using only 35% composites?Will it also be true for the Indo-Russian FGFA?In that case it will be a setback for our engineers as the Tejas Mk1 LCA itself employs more than 45% composites.Can you shed some light on this?What percentage of lightweight composites be used on the FGFA?<br /><br />You have written in one issue of FORCE magazine about the IN's plan to build/procure 20 (DDG's + FFG's) in the next 10 years starting with the Project 15B DDG.Can you please tell me what these 20 warships will be?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-15191613908622320672009-10-02T16:50:00.876-07:002009-10-02T16:50:00.876-07:00To be fair, if a US$10 million terrorist is what&#...To be fair, if a US$10 million terrorist is what's between the crosshairs, it might be economically viable to crash a Heron TP over him :)<br /><br />Good nightUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16905910031853154585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-89617838115345185802009-10-02T16:43:38.769-07:002009-10-02T16:43:38.769-07:00To Nava: I don't think it will be more expensi...To Nava: I don't think it will be more expensive than a tracked self-propelled howitzer. Yes, the initial acquisition costs may be high to cater to the GCS and mission simulation aids, but then in terms of direct operating costs per mission the cost factor goes dramatically in favour of the Harop. If for instance the Harop is employed against a terrorist target with a US$10 million bountry on his head, then of course the Harop will emerge tops. That's my take, anyway.Prasun K Senguptahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00369323150694008798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-19894503910359983602009-10-02T15:55:36.389-07:002009-10-02T15:55:36.389-07:00Yes of course moving targets can be engaged. What ...Yes of course moving targets can be engaged. What I was getting at is that the Harop will likely be too expensive to be expendable, and many of the targets you have in mind might not be "worth the money". And yet it's not sophisticated enough to pose a challenge for air defense systems when on SEAD missions. That's my problem with it.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16905910031853154585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-6523217566374699372009-10-02T15:44:16.967-07:002009-10-02T15:44:16.967-07:00To Nava: Thanks for the links. Having a man-in-the...To Nava: Thanks for the links. Having a man-in-the-loop navigation/guidance system makes the Harop more or less like a tactical UAV, with the only difference being the Harop has a built-in warhead. So in case no prior tactical recce has been done, then the Harop can go out in searchg of its targets and engage them once found. That being the case, the likely targets to be engaged could include even moving high-value targets (single or in convoy) or even dug-in or mobile field artillery assets. Which in turn would make it an ideal asset in the hands of ground forces (as opposed to air forces).Prasun K Senguptahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00369323150694008798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-34719747899609159842009-10-02T15:10:18.613-07:002009-10-02T15:10:18.613-07:00I don't think the Harop will have automatic ta...I don't think the Harop will have automatic target recognition. It's EO payload is rather generic (a POP 300 I believe). Man in the loop operation is what's been described.<br /><br />Check out this link: http://www.flightglobal.com/sectionhome/sectiondefault.aspx?NavigationID=196&CategoryID=10318&SlotID=22<br /><br />It's the third item.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16905910031853154585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-74052233703399622952009-10-02T14:55:53.868-07:002009-10-02T14:55:53.868-07:00To Nava: No, I didn't read about the Harop-Ger...To Nava: No, I didn't read about the Harop-German subject anywhere so far. Nothing to do with believing or disbelieving it. Regarding the Harop's target detection range it would depend on its cruising altitude as target acquisition will undoubtedly be via the nose-mounted optronic pod. That being the case, the Harop's inertial navigation and target acquisition systems will be activated and updated prior to launch. Which means the targetted ground radar's visual signature will have to be pre-acquired by airborne recce systems like RecceLite/Condor LOROP pods, or EL/M-2060P SAR pod or even by MALE-UAVs. If that's the case then the Harop can safely cruise at an altitude of 5,000 feet AGL, and once its FLIR turret acquires the target (on flat terrain) via a target recognition algorithmn then I guess it is a straightforward dive from there on. If the Harop were to be employed over mountainous terrain then the entire flight profile will change.Prasun K Senguptahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00369323150694008798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-45508525715883352882009-10-02T14:31:17.911-07:002009-10-02T14:31:17.911-07:00It was reported by flight global a couple of days ...It was reported by flight global a couple of days ago. Or do you mean that you couldn't verify the reports?<br /><br />WRT to the Harop's utility, at what range do you reckon it could detect a radar sized target, now that there's no ESM on board? If the "victim" were a gap filler with no embedded self protection, then maybe it could work... But how effective could the Harop be in general for SEAD when it's that vulnerable to enemy attack, and yet not cheap enough to be expendable?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16905910031853154585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-34753624653118841352009-10-02T14:16:37.313-07:002009-10-02T14:16:37.313-07:00To sbm: Absolutely, no doubt about that. The ones ...To sbm: Absolutely, no doubt about that. The ones earmarked for JATCRCs will have integral ECCM features. Instrumented range/altitude parameters far exceed those of the THD-1955 as these radars were originally developed for commercial ATM purposes. <br /><br />To Nava: The Harop I reckon is meant to be used against land-mobile tactical air-defence or gapfiller radars associated with Divisional- or Corps-level air defence artillery networks for waging deep battles. But for tactical engagements during the contact battles loitering PGMs like the proposed variant of the Spike in conjunction with network-enabled UGVs will be ideal for use against dug-in infantry emplacements that are protected by minefields. I haven't yet heard about any Harop procurement by Germany.Prasun K Senguptahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00369323150694008798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-67351913302146790492009-10-02T13:13:22.831-07:002009-10-02T13:13:22.831-07:00Yeah I heard about the Indian Harop contract (and ...Yeah I heard about the Indian Harop contract (and also about a German contract, do you know anything about that one?). To me, the Harop just doesn't seem like a cost effective system... I think loitering munitions' real potential is at a more tactical level (see the now canceled LAM). In that regard, I just skimmed through the new issue of DTI, wherein Rafael's marketing VP mentioned that Rafael is looking into a larger version of Spike with loitering capability. Network enabled ATR seems like the future, and in that regard a certain amount of synergy can be achieved with the development efforts of autonomous UGVs.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16905910031853154585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-84605790824244356712009-10-02T13:06:02.640-07:002009-10-02T13:06:02.640-07:00why dont we first get expertise in designing jet t...why dont we first get expertise in designing jet trainers and then go for tejas mk2 ,how can you gurrantee that tmk2 wont be a failure as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-49873590503660591292009-10-02T13:01:18.356-07:002009-10-02T13:01:18.356-07:00Prasun, would those new radars really be able to r...Prasun, would those new radars really be able to replace the range/ceiling and ECCM capability of the THD-1955 ?sbmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13090918961831389673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-33086879445336409232009-10-02T12:55:07.253-07:002009-10-02T12:55:07.253-07:00To sbm: Sanjay, the THD-1955s were/are used primar...To sbm: Sanjay, the THD-1955s were/are used primarily for military air traffic management of military flight information regions, and not for airspace surveillance of ADIZs. The upgrades by THALES are meant primarily for introducing solid-state electronics and replacing the older command-and-control consoles and comms elements with new digitised ones. The THD-1955s will be replaced by 13 S-band ATCR-33S primary surveillance radars and another 13 S-band Sir-S secondary surveillance radars and 52 related CDS-2000 display consoles from SELEX Sistemi Integrati. These radars will be equipping the joint air traffic control and reporting centres (JATCRC) throughout the country, and will gradually replace the THD-1955s. Incidentally, the Airport Authority of India too is acquiring the same radars for nine civilian airports, almost all in southern India. The new airports at Bangalore and Hyderabad already have these radars.Prasun K Senguptahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00369323150694008798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-155502537934044332009-10-02T12:42:34.414-07:002009-10-02T12:42:34.414-07:00To Hacker: The Heron-2 and Searcher Mk2 s are in s...To Hacker: The Heron-2 and Searcher Mk2 s are in service with the Indian Army and Indian Navy, while the Searcher Mk1s are in service with the IAF. The Nishant tactical UAV is now entering service with the Indian Army, while work continues on developing the 'Rustom' and 'Pavan' MALE-UAVs. As for min-UAVs, the Indian Army is evaluating the Elbit Systems-built Skylark 1. And maybe by next year the shipborne NRUAV (based on Alouette III airframe) will begin entering service. <br /><br />To Anon@11:24PM: Foreign expertise is required primarily for customising the kind of technologies highlighted by you for an airborne environment. As Indian OEMs have not yet had such R & D experiences, a foreign consultant is reqd to help in project definition and risk management. There are more than enough India-based vendors that can supply the reqd hardware (fibre-optics based as well as electrical actuators and other flight control hardware), but designing them for any particular platform (combat aircraft or helicopters) requires optimal engineering solutions that can only come from the airframe designer and the systems integrator with proven expertise in these areas. And since such entities (like HAL and ADA) haven't had work experiences in these areas, the need therefore arises for a foreign partner to devise and formulate the 'checklist' that says what to do or not do, and how to do, and what support R & D infrastructure is reqd for achieving what one has set out to do.Prasun K Senguptahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00369323150694008798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-50951499613468950892009-10-02T12:29:43.344-07:002009-10-02T12:29:43.344-07:00To Anon@7:26PM: Yes, the Tejas Mk2 will be an opti...To Anon@7:26PM: Yes, the Tejas Mk2 will be an optimally engineered combat aircraft and thanks to the uprated powerplant (to be selected in future) all problems associated with excess weight of undercarriage et all will be a thing of the past. In my personal view, it is utterly unrealistic to expected the existing Tejas Mk1 to become a definitive production variant as the developers (ADA and other DRDO labs, plus HAL0 had to overcome a huge R & D curve, nurture entire generations of skilled scientists, designers and engineers, and create an effective and viable vendor development programme. Now, all these have been achieved with the Tejas Mk1 venture (similar to what BAE Systems did with the EAP and EADS did with the X-31) and to me, therefore, the Tejas Mk1 project definitely deserves to be labelled as an unqualified success. No doubt about that. Now, based on these vital foundations, now comes the build-up stage under which the Tejas Mk2 (both single- and tandem-seaters) and its naval variant ought to be committed to series-production. <br />As for AESA-related R & D, here again the R & D activities and industry-level vendor development programmes are proceeding in an incoherent manner in the sense that R & D work should have been undertaken concurrently, instead of sequentially. Thus, announcements of the type you've mentioned should have been made way back in the late 1990s the moment India decided to acquire the EL/M-2080 Green Pine LRTR and consequently, have strategic tie-ups between the defence electronics industries of India and Israel. For it is only when the total projected volume of business is firmly identified, can private-sector industrial SMEs as well as larger manufacturing giants decide to make the necessary risk-sharing financial commitments and industrial JV tie-ups. Since this has not been the case with AESA-based airborne radars for combat aircraft, I personally do not foresee a functional prototype emerging from the DRDO until 2015 at least, UNLESS it happens to be an 'Indianised' EL/M-2052, just like the Green Pine has bveen 'Indianised' into the LRTR.Prasun K Senguptahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00369323150694008798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-67438666286152885612009-10-02T12:05:39.772-07:002009-10-02T12:05:39.772-07:00To Anon@11:39PM: That radar was identified by me w...To Anon@11:39PM: That radar was identified by me way back on March 9 this year. Look at the first slide I posted at: http://trishulgroup.blogspot.com/2009/03/batch-3-of-project-11356-ffgs-to-be.html<br />On the top-left corner of that slide you will see the radar. It is Russian (not Israeli) simply because it will be used in conjunction with the Shtil-1 MR-SAM system. Therefore, non-Russian radars are ruled out. That should put an end to all the ill-informed speculation about the LW-08 or EL/M-2238 being on-board the Project 17 Shivalik FFG.Prasun K Senguptahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00369323150694008798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-70360439753847352192009-10-02T12:02:10.600-07:002009-10-02T12:02:10.600-07:00To Anon@11:39PM: That radar was identified by me w...To Anon@11:39PM: That radar was identified by me way back on March 9 this year. Look at the first slide I posted at: http://trishulgroup.blogspot.com/2009/03/batch-3-of-project-11356-ffgs-to-be.html<br />On the top-left corner of that slide you will see the radar. It is Russian (not Israeli) simply because it will be used in conjunction with the Shtil-1 MR-SAM system. Therefore, non-Russian radars are ruled out. That should put an end to all the ill-informed speculation about the LW-08 or EL/M-2238 being on-board the Project 17 Shivalik FFG.Prasun K Senguptahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00369323150694008798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-78462521623704362572009-10-02T11:55:48.541-07:002009-10-02T11:55:48.541-07:00To Kannan, India: There is no problem with the ADM...To Kannan, India: There is no problem with the ADM project simply because there is no third-perty imported content. But when it comes to the Heron TP, the turboprop engine comes from Canada and hence the MTCR restrictions prevent Israel from supplying the Heron TP equipped with engines sourced from Pratt & Whitney Canada.Prasun K Senguptahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00369323150694008798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-28771322890847182692009-10-02T11:50:23.032-07:002009-10-02T11:50:23.032-07:00To Anon@4:04PM: For now, the Indian Navy is fundin...To Anon@4:04PM: For now, the Indian Navy is funding only the development of two technology demonstrators (one single-seater and one tandem-seater) of the NLCA. Now, there's no reason to believe that the Indian Navy's NLCA will in any way be inferior (in terms of performance and weapons payload capability) to the IAF's projected Tejas Mk2. Therefore, sooner or later, the term NLCA will be replaced with a new name by Navy HQ and the NLCA will eventually become another M-MRCA. Whole some, like BROADSWORD, have chosen to take the simplistic opinion based on the term NLCA and have wrongly deduced that since the NLCA will have to co-exist with the MiG-29K M-MRCA, consequently, the NLCA will be 'lighter' or 'inferior' to the MiG-29K. Well, nothing is further from the truth. In addition, it doesn't make any financial sense whatsoever to have two variants of the Tejas--the 'inferior' Tejas Mk1 and the IAF's Tejas Mk2--to be produced concurrently for two different Indiann end-users. Therefore, based on the flight-tests of the two NLCA technology demonstrators, orders for the series-production batch of the carrier-based Tejas Mk2 will be placed by Navy HQ.<br /><br />To Gaurav: Thanks. Actually, the discussions are on-going for a total of 90 more IRKUT Corp-built Su-30MKIs, which are to be ordered in future in two batches of 50 and 40. Logically, it will make sense for a carrier-based variant of the FGFA to be developed as well, although the Indian Navy has not be enrolled in as an operational stakeholder in the FGFA project. But there's still time and the Indian Navy does not need to rush at this stage. As for strategic bombers, I'm not aware of the existence of any operational reqmt for this type of aircraft from either the IAF or Indian Navy.Prasun K Senguptahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00369323150694008798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-63669531095295120902009-10-02T09:31:30.485-07:002009-10-02T09:31:30.485-07:00IMHO MRTA MTOW is being under reported. HAL poster...IMHO MRTA MTOW is being under reported. HAL posters clearly show it to 68tons. But if you compare the cabin size with C-130s and 737s/320s then the real MTOW may be something like 75-85 tons.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01486610428575270302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-57814114783464138622009-10-02T06:04:33.142-07:002009-10-02T06:04:33.142-07:00Prasun, the THD-1955 radars that the IAF operates ...Prasun, the THD-1955 radars that the IAF operates - 12 I think - Thales had been given a contract to upgrade at least some of them.<br /><br />How many will be upgraded and what will eventually replace them ?sbmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13090918961831389673noreply@blogger.com