tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post2067708430650180308..comments2024-02-10T23:32:15.095-08:00Comments on TRISHUL: Fair Winds And Smooth Sailing In Calm WatersPrasun K Senguptahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00369323150694008798noreply@blogger.comBlogger70125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-46675608002237172132009-02-15T10:39:00.000-08:002009-02-15T10:39:00.000-08:00Dear Prasun Da,have you any information on my post...Dear Prasun Da,<BR/><BR/>have you any information on my post of 8th Feb 2009. I would appreciate feedback on same.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-72993277228071079542009-02-08T05:23:00.000-08:002009-02-08T05:23:00.000-08:00Why are the Russians screwing us for higher price ...Why are the Russians screwing us for higher price for additional MiG 29K without any addition of equipment? (news on www.idrw.org dated 08/01/2009)<BR/><BR/>the news report mentions "As per earlier agreement signed in 2004 Indian navy ordered 16 Mig-29k carrier borne for $46 million apiece, deal included an option to buy 12 more at the same price. Now Indian navy has plans for 29 more carrier borne aircrafts but the price of still to be inducted jet as gone up by 60 % and the latest price tag is cool $75 million apiece, without any better technical advantage over the current manufactured Mig-29k"<BR/><BR/>What is the correct information on this?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-45523271176148685652009-01-06T14:51:00.000-08:002009-01-06T14:51:00.000-08:00To Anon@10:00AM: The quoted offer for 24 AGM-84 Ha...To Anon@10:00AM: The quoted offer for 24 AGM-84 Harpoons by the US DSCA for the Indian Air Force is for US$170 million. That works out to US$7.08 million per missile round. Now go tell your 'gurus' at FAS to update their figures.Prasun K Senguptahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00369323150694008798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-34082131975088343592009-01-06T11:04:00.000-08:002009-01-06T11:04:00.000-08:00To Anon@10:34AM: "operating envioment is no constr...To Anon@10:34AM: "operating envioment is no constraint for armed forces...if soldiers can drive t72 in desert in intense heat,if soldiers can go to siachen and climb on mountains,if soldiers can operate submarines in constraint environment so there should b no problems in operating tu142..." <BR/>-------------------------------<BR/>Show me even I photograph showing a T-72 MBT being used by the Indian Army in desert conditions at noontime. Tell me for how many hours are soldiers reqd to climb mountains. Tell me how many operating shifts are there on board a submarine for crewmen and how many sets of crewmen are there on board submarines. <BR/><BR/>To Anon@10:25AM: FAS or Globalsecurity or Wikipedia can't be trusted with cost figures. Instead, the price and availability quotes from missile manufacturers are far morte credible. Just visit the US DSCA site and see their sales figures for probable weapons exports and only then come to a realistic conclusion on the pricing levels. Also, no missile manufacturer will give you a price and availability quote for just missiles. Either you buy the entire package (including test equipment, operating consoles and training aids) or you don't. All manufacturers quote for a complete package, and not just for missile rounds. What is the use of buying only a missile round if you don't buy the operating console as well? Therefore, talking about the price of just a single missile round is fallacious and wrong.Prasun K Senguptahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00369323150694008798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-68171714732543921472009-01-06T10:34:00.000-08:002009-01-06T10:34:00.000-08:00to senguptaoperating envioment is no constraint fo...to sengupta<BR/><BR/>operating envioment is no constraint for armed forces<BR/><BR/>if soldiers can drive t72 in desert in intense heat,if soldiers can go to siachen and climb on mountains ,if soldiers can operate submarines in constraint environment so there should b no problems in operating tu142 <BR/><BR/>by the way in armed forces r preopared to fight in all types of envirements and flying tu142 is waaay easier than doing all above i mentioned <BR/><BR/>and tu142 has enough space for its crew <BR/><BR/>and brahmos air launched can b equipped with tu142 when its ready with problemAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-67146952456096869152009-01-06T10:27:00.001-08:002009-01-06T10:27:00.001-08:00test related and operating consoles cost is not ba...test related and operating consoles cost is not based on the per-missile price. those are standard to be procured at the beginning, and there after the cost of missiles wont exceed $700,000 / piece. Anyway those test consoles etc. are also needed for the nirbhay arent they?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-87115442048776399852009-01-06T10:27:00.000-08:002009-01-06T10:27:00.000-08:00test related and operating consoles cost is not ba...test related and operating consoles cost is not based on the per-missile price. those are standard to be procured at the beginning, and there after the cost of missiles wont exceed $700,000 / piece. Anyway those test consoles etc. are also needed for the nirbhay arent they?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-37008630874082644912009-01-06T10:25:00.000-08:002009-01-06T10:25:00.000-08:00prices are taken from FAS and missile threat.com a...prices are taken from FAS and missile threat.com and based on the citations are from 2002 and 2003. a $500,000 missile in 2003 aint gonna cost 3 million today. i know about brahmos being over 6 million, but prices for the rest come from the internet and come from between 02 and 03.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-72906466382088182582009-01-06T10:07:00.000-08:002009-01-06T10:07:00.000-08:00To Anon@9:56AM: There you go again, comparing perf...To Anon@9:56AM: There you go again, comparing performance parameters like range etc, without realising that no matter what the range figures are, the on-board crew is BIOLOGICALLY constrained from operating beyond 8 hours! Secondly, the primary role of aircraft like Tu-142M is maritime reconnaissaance and ASW, and not anti-ship strike. Therefore it makes no difference whether the aircraft carries two or four or six BrahMos missiles. Also note that for the B.737NGs now operated by the IAF's VIP Flight, ALL on-board EW systems came from the US, the latest state-of-the-art, with no operational restrictions. As regards the A310MPA, it has no firm orders from anyone, and not even a simulator of the A319MPA exists, it is just a paper design and therefore neither Airbus nor EADS can give an accurate and guaranteed cost of one A319MPA. <BR/><BR/>To Anon@9:57AM: The prices you've given were valid a decade ago. Today, an Exocet MM-40 Block 3 or Harpoon Block IIL and its related test-equipment/operating consoles/part-task trainers costs no less than US$3.6 million. The BrahMos costs more than US$6 million (this is the price the Indian Navy is paying to BrahMos Aerospace.Prasun K Senguptahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00369323150694008798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-60138393187378240912009-01-06T10:00:00.000-08:002009-01-06T10:00:00.000-08:00not to forget:AGM-84 Harpoon: $527,416 USDnot to forget:<BR/><BR/>AGM-84 Harpoon: $527,416 USDAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-2110792113211107782009-01-06T09:57:00.001-08:002009-01-06T09:57:00.001-08:00Sengupta, you were the one who said the price of 2...Sengupta, you were the one who said the price of 200 36MT engines were $100 million USD. - so that is $500,000 USD per unit (only engine cost!) Now add on the cost of R&D and the rest of the Nirbhay systems - an extremely modest estimate would be $600,000 per piece (again extremely modest)<BR/><BR/>Here are the prices for various missiles / unit for comparison:<BR/><BR/>Exocet MM40 Block: $350,000 USD<BR/>AGM 119 Penguin: $500,000 USD<BR/>AS.34 Komoran 1: $540,000 USD<BR/>Sea Skua: $316,000 USDAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-83378134074067275452009-01-06T09:57:00.000-08:002009-01-06T09:57:00.000-08:00if US can operate its b52 bomber and c5 galaxy til...if US can operate its b52 bomber and c5 galaxy till 2040 then i c no problem in operating tu142 for 20 more yearsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-82297525884844258832009-01-06T09:56:00.000-08:002009-01-06T09:56:00.000-08:00to senguptatu142 is superior to p8 in all aspects1...to sengupta<BR/><BR/>tu142 is superior to p8 in all aspects<BR/><BR/>1. unmatched range(most important)<BR/>2.more combat load+brahmos<BR/>3.with israli elta2022a,ELINT,COMINT COMPARES with american electronics<BR/><BR/>4.new kuznetsov engines <BR/><BR/>and all this comes at waaaaay lower prices and these aircraft still have 20 years of life <BR/><BR/><BR/>moreover US vill have reservations on this aircraft and it doesn't sell its elctronic warfare systems<BR/><BR/>airbus offer is cheaperAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-73005031404315025732009-01-06T09:30:00.000-08:002009-01-06T09:30:00.000-08:00To Anon@1:09PM: Kindly explain in what way the Tu-...To Anon@1:09PM: Kindly explain in what way the Tu-142M is superior to the P-8I.<BR/><BR/>To Sachin: it takes years (almost a decade) to nurture and build up a credible warship design team, and that time is not available at this pount in time for Project 75(I). Only the Naval Design Bureau currently has a team of warship designers/architects, the DRDO doesn't. <BR/>Regarding the C-295 versus the An-32B, the former is far more advanced and the first MPA version of the C-295 flew a decade ago. Also, its FITS mission management suite is well-proven and is operational worldwide. The MTA can be developed as a LRMR/ASW aircraft in theory, but in practice it will require an enormous amount of funding to be allocated for R & D. <BR/>The SSGN will be totally different from the ATV in several respects, but the Indian industrial OEMs associated with the ATV project will definitely be associated with the SSGN's construction effort.<BR/><BR/>To Anon@3:03AM: Based on your comments, one presumes that you know what's the cost of developing the Nirbhay cruise missile simulator, and what's the cost of buying one Club-S/M cruise missile. Would you like to share those figures? Only then can we decide which option is more economical.Prasun K Senguptahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00369323150694008798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-30605453477319402482009-01-06T07:49:00.000-08:002009-01-06T07:49:00.000-08:00apart from saving money it saves timeapart from saving money it saves timeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-64302827278019254352009-01-06T07:48:00.000-08:002009-01-06T07:48:00.000-08:00Vikas - thanx.but isnt using [disposable] klubs ch...Vikas - thanx.<BR/><BR/>but isnt using [disposable] klubs cheaper than cost of development of nirbhay + cost of 36MT engine + cost of production?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-11275996768215044852009-01-06T04:21:00.000-08:002009-01-06T04:21:00.000-08:00@Anonymous said - Tuesday, January 06, 2009 3:03:0...@Anonymous said - Tuesday, January 06, 2009 3:03:00 AM<BR/><BR/>------------<BR/>i was juz wondering segupta..... why pay so much and develop a nirbhay t simulate cruise missile when we can use klubs w/ dummy warheads warheads for the same job?<BR/>------------<BR/><BR/>Klub in this cannot be reused.Vikashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12259312945880021508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-39345824241822142352009-01-06T04:19:00.000-08:002009-01-06T04:19:00.000-08:008 Dhruv's are already operating in the Utility rol...8 Dhruv's are already operating in the Utility role and only the Anti-Submarine version will not be inducted.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-24119143052120109712009-01-06T03:03:00.000-08:002009-01-06T03:03:00.000-08:00i was juz wondering segupta..... why pay so much a...i was juz wondering segupta..... why pay so much and develop a nirbhay t simulate cruise missile when we can use klubs w/ dummy warheads warheads for the same job?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-37341133984314358612009-01-05T19:25:00.000-08:002009-01-05T19:25:00.000-08:00ok got the drift. But to speed up tht process cant...ok got the drift.<BR/> But to speed up tht process cant DRDO & IN's designing wing team up with some firm like fincantieri to produce the ssk?that way western expertise can be brought in for designing a completely diff design (since the P 75(I) wom't be in IN service before at least 2014) also if IN is taking help in designing (atleast some part of) SSGN from foreign shipyard can't it do the same for an ssk?<BR/><BR/> also regarding mrmp the C-295 is i believe a cargo plane which in this case was modified for this role.How is it performance wise compared to AN-32?<BR/> <BR/> Also has there been any progress on the Indo-Russian MTA project i.e when can we expect the work on first prototype to start? Can it be modified from the start to do the maritime survailance like the C-295?<BR/><BR/> with the government clearing the SSGN will some elements of the ATV project(non-nuclear) be incorporated in it?sachin_sathehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02104023701292128933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-29762521307295364582009-01-05T13:09:00.000-08:002009-01-05T13:09:00.000-08:00hey prasun sometime ago u said both p8i and a319 r...hey prasun sometime ago u said both p8i and a319 r contender for navy now what p8i <BR/>deal has been signed even if p8i is inferior to tu142 in all aspects <BR/><BR/>p8i got not so effective rage payload and many penaltise coming with this aircraft <BR/>and this has not yet flown <BR/><BR/>airbus offered its aircraft at much less price for the same qualities advertised<BR/><BR/>tu142 is still cutting edge with israeli electronics<BR/><BR/>our idiot govt and armed forces fuckAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-6211824594130438212009-01-05T13:07:00.000-08:002009-01-05T13:07:00.000-08:00“In an attempt to get back into the competition to...“In an attempt to get back into the competition to supply India with an updated long-range maritime patrol aircraft, Russia’s Taganrogskaya Aviatsiya (TAVIA) has created an updated Tu-142M, designated the Tu-142MSD. The new aircraft is the export version of the design Russia plans to use itself. The Tu-142MSD reportedly carries, in addition to other ordnance, either eight air-to-surface Kh-35E anti-ship missiles, or six BrahMos missiles. India has been searching for a replacement to its Tu-142Ms and has most recently thrown-open the competition internationally. India's earlier programme to upgrade its eight Tu-142Ms by Russia fell through in 2004 due to an estimated cost of US$888 million, at which time India turned to Israel Aerospace Industries However, in December, 2004, Russia stomped-down that deal by refusing to cooperate if Israel was involved. TAVIA’s latest proposal includes a deal to rework the aircraft airframes with the goal of enabling the lowest-time airframes to remain in service until 2026”.Prasun K Senguptahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00369323150694008798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-7498707346934563992009-01-05T12:58:00.000-08:002009-01-05T12:58:00.000-08:00That's right, but they are new-build NK-12MV engin...That's right, but they are new-build NK-12MV engines, not a new design per se. The full-scope structural upgrade exists on paper and is called the Tu-142MSD. Shubho Ratri.Prasun K Senguptahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00369323150694008798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-75386558717861714332009-01-05T12:42:00.000-08:002009-01-05T12:42:00.000-08:00Thanks Prasun Da,BTW..if I remember correct..India...Thanks Prasun Da,<BR/><BR/>BTW..if I remember correct..India had orderd 6 nos of a newer engine for a trial/evaluation for Tu-142.<BR/><BR/>Shubho Ratri,Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5154280302945875495.post-2882565061231905532009-01-05T12:18:00.000-08:002009-01-05T12:18:00.000-08:00Sontu Da, as you very well know, it will become co...Sontu Da, as you very well know, it will become cost-prohibitive for the Tu-142M's airframe and engines to be in flightworthy condition by 2018. Now, if in the meantime the Russians come up with a service life-extension package that results in a reduction of the Tu-142M's direct operating costs, plus a relifing of the airframe and possibly a re-engining package that includes new-generation propellers, and a glass cockpit to top it up. then I would definitely like to see such upgraded Tu-142Ms remaining in service for at least another decade. As per the Indian Navy's long-term perspective plans, at least 28 LRMR/ASW are required to operate within the Navy's maritime awareness domain. Therefore, every available but cost-effective platform must be utilised to the fullest for as far as possible.Prasun K Senguptahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00369323150694008798noreply@blogger.com