Tuesday, September 30, 2008

Project 15A DDG Detailed









The progress of fabricating the three Project 15A Kolkata-class guided-missile destroyers (DDG), being built at a cost of Rs84.59 billion by the Indian Ministry of Defence-owned Mazagon Docks Ltd (MDL), has been as slow as that of the earlier three Project 15 Delhi-class DDGs. Though approved in 2000, the first of these 6,800-tonne DDGs (see photo 4) will be ready only by 2012. All this will further delay the Indian Navy’s (IN) plan to order three more DDGs under Project 15B (which is now on the Directorate of Naval Design Bureau’s drawing boards) as well as seven new FFGs under Project 17A. Work on Project 15A was slowed primarily due to delays in finalisation of design data and Russian weapons and sensor systems to be used on board. Russia’s Baltisky Zavod Shipyard was also late in supplying equipment like shafting and propellers (costing $20 million for each DDG). The first shipment took place in late 2005, the second will follow in 2009 and the third in 2010. Moreover, extensive design and production rework has had to be done due to a large number of design changes made after production work had commenced. It usually takes six months to acquire long-lead items like cabling consignments, and two years to take delivery of the shafting and propellers of a warship. The time for warship-building is also dictated by the availability of diesel engines. Currently, there is such a tremendous demand for such engines that Wartsila, SEMT Pielstick, Caterpillar, MTU and MAN, the major producers of diesel engines, are fully booked till 2013. Each of the three Project 15A DDGs will be powered by a COGAG propulsion system comprising twin Ukrainian Zorya Production Association-built M36E gas turbine plants that produce more than 64,000hp. The M36E marine industrial gas turbine plant comprises four DT-59 reversible gas turbines grouped in two pairs, driving two propellers through two RG-54 gearboxes. There are four separate Russia-made gas turbine generators, two in each engine room, that drive two controllable pitch propellers through twin gearboxes. Also to be installed are twin Bergen/Garden Reach Shipbuilding & Engineering-built KVM-diesel engines each rated at 9,900hp. On-board power generation will come from four 1mWe Wartsila WCM-1000 generator sets driving Cummins KTA50G3 engines and Kirloskar 1MV AC generators. Each Project 15A DDG has a length of 163 metres and a width of 17.4 metres. Plate-cutting for the lead vessel, INS Kolkata, began on March 12, 2003 and the hull was launched on March 30, 2005. The weapons package will include twin 24-cell launchers carrying 48 Barak-2 vertically-launched 70km-range surface-to-air missiles, twin 16-cell launchers carrying 32 Barak-1 anti-missile missiles, 16 BrahMos vertically-launched MRCMs housed within a VLS cell built by Larsen & Toubro, and one Arsenal A-190E 100mm main gun. Principal on-board sensors will include the DRDO-developed and BEL-built Humsa-NG hull-mounted panoramic sonar and a yet-to-be-selected low-frequency active towed array sonar (with the EDO-built ALOFTS, THALES’ Captas-Nano, ATLAS Elektronik’s ACTAS and L-3 Ocean Systems’ LFTAS being on offer). Also to be fitted on board each of the three DDGs will be one S-band ELTA EL/M-2248 MF-STAR active phased-array multi-purpose radar and one EL/M-2238 L-band STAR low-level medium-range surveillance radar. The offboard countermeasures dispensing systems will be ELBIT Systems’ Deseaver (same as that on board the IN’s three existing Project 16A Brahmaputra-class DDGs). The integrated platform management system (IPMS) will be supplied by Canada-based L-3 MAPPS, while the MoD-owned Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL) will supply the Electronic Modular Command & Control Applications (EMCCA Mk4) combat management system, CCS Mk4 composite communications system and an ATM-based broadband integrated shipborne data network. INS Kolkata is expected to be commissioned in 2010, followed by its two sister vessels in 2011 and 2012.
Another significant addition to the IN fleet of principal surface combatants in future will be the three follow-on Project 1135.6 guided-missile frigates (FFG) that are now being fitted out at Russia’s Kaliningrad-based Yantar Shipyard JSC. Each such FFG will be armed with eight vertically launched BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles (photo 5). The photos above (1 & 2) also detail the combat management system of the Project 1135.6 FFG (photo 3).

69 comments:

Anonymous said...

i don't think that barak 2 will b available when the first p15a is commissioned

so tell me please which SAM will b used

babloo said...

how does the sonar suite on our
KASHIN CLASS DESTROYERS compared to sonar suite in AGUSTA CLASS

will our destroyer survive against a agusta submarnie

Vishal said...

Happy to see your new blog, Prasun. Wish you all the best.


(sorry, cant sign in at office)

max said...

@Prasun

Please comment about the stealth capabilities of the Kolkata.

Max said...

The models look really cool. Prasun u should upload your pics into Wikipedia.

Anonymous said...

hehe this prasun monkey opend a blog too looks like now any idiot can blog hehe

Anonymous said...

@ Anon above

Yeah...and there are some idiots who are still incapable of doing that. Like you!

Prasun K Sengupta said...

The Barak-2 is being designed for drop-in installation on board the P-15A DDGs and even if the first two DDGs are commissioned without the Barak-2 on board, temporary reliance will be placed on the on-board Barak-1s.
At least three of the five Kashin II-class DDGs have been retrofitted with the HUMSA Mk1 hull-mounted panoramic sonar. But for any warship to survive against a submarine, the warship MUST be equipped with low-frequency active/passive towed-array sonar (TAS). The DRDO is developing the Nagan TAS but its induction has been delayed due to certain technological challenges that need to overcome.
The stealth features and incorporated technologies of the P-15A DDG are comparable to those of the La Fayette FFG, no doubt about that, since the Naval Design Bureau used the La Fayette's RCS reduction parameters as the baseline capability for both the P-15A DDG and P-17 FFG superstructure designs. Radar-absorbent paint/coatings are being used extensively.

Anonymous said...

hehehehe that anon above is sure non other then prasun monkey boy. that is why he felt the pinch. as i say any idiot can blog an i dont want to come in that league of idiots.

Anonymous said...

As a matter of fact, its not!
i can assure you

Anonymous said...

yeah aroor, you can assure us. knew it was you. aroor, the original monkey on the net.

Anonymous said...

lol if aroor is monkey then prasun is donkey..

hehe juz kidding prasun no taking anything seriously.. juz for fun ok?

hey prasun anyway u say p17 frigate is as stealthy as lafayette but br said 'does not feature extreme stealthy or low observable features like the Swedish Visby or even the French Lafayette'

please see (http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Project17.html) i think theres some misinformation on ur side.

Anonymous said...

to sengupta

But for any warship to survive against a submarine, the warship MUST be equipped with low-frequency active/passive towed-array sonar (TAS). The DRDO is developing the Nagan TAS but its induction has been delayed due to certain technological challenges that need to overcome.
------------------------------------------------
is no other towed array sonar available off the shelf form europe

and how many ships have towed array with them

Anonymous said...

to sengupta

it means those ships without towed array sonars will not survive against paki subamrines

Anonymous said...

to sengupta

and how does the anti submarine helicopter being carried by seacrching ship help in anti submarine warfare context

Anonymous said...

and also how does the ka28 helo
compared with sea king helo in an anti submarine role

Max said...

@Prasun

I thought it's Nagin TAS and not Nagan. I think it'll be ready by the time the ships get built don't you? I thought DRDO is expected to get it ready by 2011 isn't it?

And yes, as what an anon above said, even Global Security says that Shivalik's radar signature won't be as small as Visby or LaFayette. Perhaps Kolkata may be on LaFayette standards but not Shivalik.

PS: Please adjust this comment form so the tme of posting is visible. Hard to address people.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

I would take what others say in other chat forums about the stealth characteristics of the P-15A DDG and P-17 FFG at face value only. Specially since the DG of the Naval Design Bureau last December and again earlier this year himself in exclusive interviews to FORCE went into great details about the methodology applied when designing the two above-mentioned warships.

Regarding towed-array sonars (TAS), there are four systems available: ALOFTS from EDO Corp (already operational with Israel & Singapore); LFATS from L-3 Ocean Systems; ACTAS from ATLAS Elektronik (now owned by EADS); and THALES" Captas-Nano (ordered by Saudi Arabia). Tenders will soon be issued for supplying such TAS for the Navy's Abhay-class ASW corvettes as well as the Project 28 ASW corvettes. The P-17 FFGs too may get such imported TAS. The three P-15 Delhi-class DDGs have the older Graseby Dynamics Type 750 TAS, but it is a mid-frequency system. The three operational P-16A Brahmaputra-class FFGs and three Project 1135.6 FFGs do not have any TAS as yet.

For the Scorpene SSKs thin-line towed-array sonars from ATLAS Elektronik & L-3 Ocean Systems are being considered. Rest assured, I will soon post a special story on the available sonars for warships, submarines & helicopters.

Regarding ASW helicopters with dunking sonars, they are normally employed for limited durations only and only AFTER the wearship's own HMS or TAS have detected a hostile submerged target. It is only then that the helicopter takes off to LOCALISE the submerged target and obtain its precise location prior to launching lightweight torpedoes. Such helicopters are also used for forward screening and surveillance about 50nm ahead of an advancing naval task force but in this case the dunking sonars are operating in active mode all the way as if trying to deter the hostile lurking underwater SSKs from undertaking offensive actions or keeping them way outside the engagement envelopes of their heavyweight wire-guided torpedoes and/or sub-launched anti-ship cruise missiles.

In terms of performance both the Ka-28PL and Sea King Mk42B have their own merits and demerits. Shipborne helicopters are by nature tempremental due to the unique environment they operate in. But there are now moves to dramatically upgrade the capabilities of these two helicopter types by equipping them with the same type of mission management suite, which will include new-generation search radar, acoustic signals processor, magnetic anomaly detector, integrated countermeasures system, ELINT/SIGINT sub-systems and the low-frequency dunking sonar (like THALESRaytheon's FLASH, or L-3 Ocean Systems' HELRAS, or the much awaited BEL-built Nagan.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Max: It is the Nagan low-frequency sonar, not Nagin, and it will be built by the same Ghaziabad unit of BEL that is now producing the HUMSA NG HMS. As you are well aware, Shiv Aroorji had earlier posted in his blog some photos of the handover ceremony of production engineering documents (for the HUMSA NG) from the DRDO to BEL. Therefore, I reckon when similar photos are released by the DRDO on similar ceremonies for the Nagan and Mihir dunking sonar, only then we will know for sure that the P-16A, Project 1135.6 and P-17 FFGs will have a comprehensive ASW sonar suite.

Anonymous said...

dear prasun, do you have similar photos for the sonars on the kilo class which are also drdo ones?
please be aware that very few of these events are covered in detail or even publicicized by DRDO. its only recently they starting allowing media and public coverage of same.
FYI, nagan has cleared trials and is already on ins mumbai and is in production. please contact BEL for more details.

Anonymous said...

Rest assured, I will soon post a special story on the available sonars for warships, submarines & helicopters.

for everyones sake, and your own most of all, please write ONLY what u know and mark what is unknown as unknown, your not doing this and making speculation as fact is what causes most ppl to lose their temper with u.

another thing, the ew fit on all current in production naval ships is the drdo ellora(follow on of ajanta) which is now also made by BEL.

Anonymous said...

dear prasun, do you have similar photos for the sonars on the kilo class which are also drdo ones?

point in saying this was that drdo has not released details or pics of fit. but it is there and in service. all upg kilo class now have comprehensive drdo sonar fit but which few on internet know.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Anon@10:11:00AM: Many thanks for the heads-up on the Nagan ATAS installation on INS Mumbai. Presumably the DDG was being used as the pre-induction trials testbed and once the Nagan is cleared for operational induction, then the other existing vessels in line--the remaining two P-15 DDGs, three Project 16A FFGs & three Project 1135.6 FFGs--will be retrofitted with the Nagan during their periodic service/refit schedules.
Regardng the DRDO-developed Ushus sonar (part of the Panchendriya sonar suite) on board the upgraded Type 877EKM Kilo-class SSKs, I distinctly remember that the BEL pavilion at Aero India 2007 and DEFEXPO 2008 proudly showed all elements of the suite, including the hull-mounted unit, its transducers, and portside and starboard flank-array sonars (which are also used for torpedo approach warning). I have the latest product CD catalogue from BEL and will browse through it to see if any brochure-like info on all new-generation BEL-built sonar suites are in it and if I'm lucky, then will post it in JPEG format in the near future.

Anonymous said...

prasun, bel product info is often very much out of date. BEL website is only so funny, with only occasonal updating

they seem to regard their work on drdo radar as top hush hush even while its being inducted non stop.

pls also read through comments about ur rohini article in livefist from some informed ppl there to know where you went wrong.

nice chatting with you. more later..

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Anon@10:15:00AM: Factually, you are wrong since the Ajanta/Ellora systems are only ESM systems. The total integrated EW package of which the ESM is only a part, for principal surface combatants is called Sangraha. You can get more data about it at: http://www.drdo.com/labs/dlrl/areas.html

Regarding the various DRDO-developed sonars, one can get data as well as view photos at: http://www.drdo.com/labs/npol/achieve.html

To Anon@11:06:00AM: Actually, if you go through the contents of the BEL Product Catalogue for 2008 contained in the CD-R, there's a lot more info and illustrations than is available on BEL's official website. And BEL updates this catalogue every year without fail.

Anonymous said...

prasun, you are wrong again. please stop relying on internet copy pastes and brochures and small talk with OEMs when somebody with more knowledge gives u information. use it @humility and u and ur articles will be better for it.

the ajanta and ellora both have countermeasure systems as part of the system. they are latest gen units. sangraha is a program to deploy multiple different system, not just ESM or EW, for ur information, a system can have both ecm and esm as part of itself, and sangraha is a family of such systems, that is why it is program. there are different systems for aircraft, ships and submarines. now each of these systems can have either esm or ecm or both.

npol link is also very brief on what actual details are.
and unless bel has the latest range of radars including latest phased array systems in CD, it is not fully comprehensive.

Anonymous said...

npol link does not even talk of humsa-NG, nagan. this is constant problem with drdo, total lack of awareness of media interaction and self projection.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Anon@12:21:00PM: I beg to differ with you fundamentally because:
1) The DRDO's official pamphlets and past annual reports of the MoD themselves describe the Ajanta/Ellora as ESM systems. Are you therefore implying that both the DRDO & MoD are giving out abject lies?
2) The Sangraha suite comprises five different systems, two of which are for submarines.
3) My inputs are not based on 'small talk' with OEMs, but on 'successive & exhaustive interactions'. I never engage in small talk with any OEM, rest assured.
4) I first saw the entire 'Sangraha' EW suite on board ther INS Delhi over a five-day period in December 1997. The official book brought out by the Western Naval Command for the commissioning ceremony of INS Delhi spells out in great detail what is on board the DDG, and what is indigenous and what is imported.
5) Purely due to EMI issues one can never have the ESM and ECM suites physically located together or even packaged as one system. Hence, both the Ajanta & Ellora ESM systems are mounted on top of the main mast. The jammers are mounted further down and on board the three P-16A FFGs the entire multi-mode jamming system and offboard countermeasures system is of Israeli origin (I saw this on board INS Betwa in October 2005).
6) Regretably, due to all of the above, you will be disappointed, as you will find that your earlier observations were way off the mark.

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Anonymous said...

hey prasun u have not answered my question

r our warship will stay against paki

u214 and agusta90b if they don't have low frequency sonars

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Anon@4:30PM: The 3 follow-on Project 1135.6 FFGs, three P-17 FFGs and three P-15A DDGs will all have on board the HUMSA-NG low-frequency HMS on board. The rest of the frontline FFGs and DDGs now operational will be retrofitted with the new HMS during their periodic refit schedules. Before the year's end, two separate tenders will be issued: one for active thin-line towed-array sonars (ATAS); and the other for the low-frequency dunking sonar. Will soon post a story on the potential tenderers both both these types of sonars. The four Class 209/Type 1500 SSKs are also being fitted with thin-line active towed-array sonars and the six Scorpenes are also due to get them, most probably the L-3 Ocean Systems-built TB-23H. The ATAS, most probably the BEL-built Nagan, will most likely also be on the four Project 28 ASW corvettes under construction. But rhe 4 Abhay-class ASW corvettes will have imported ATAS on board and that contract has gone for re-tendering.

Anonymous said...

hey prasun buddy pls compare our navy with porkistan and chinki navys please..

Max said...

@Prasun

"I would take what others say in other chat forums about the stealth characteristics of the P-15A DDG and P-17 FFG at face value only."

Hello, Global security isn't a chat forum!.. Please see: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/shivalik.htm

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Anonymous said...

sengupta, u r a liarrrrr

Anonymous said...
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Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Max@2:48AM: My dear Max, despite the likes of Ajai, Shiv and myself taking great pains to keep everyone updated, and despite the Govt of India going out of its way to be open and transparent by showcasing its defence R & D capabilities/achievements during the Aero India and DEFEXPO exhibitions, how many times have either Globalsecurity or FAS updated their database. The same goes for the likes of BR. When did they dissect and analyse the issue of whether the FGFA is either the PAK-FA or T-50 or MFS? Within the next 48 hours I will be uploading a story on this issue and you be the final judge in terms of whose credible and who's not. Don't get me wrong, for I'm not engaging in any kind of ego-trip or one-upmanship. I;m merely trying in my blog to present facts supported by evidence (via photos, OEM-released brochures/catalogues etc), and not mere suppositions, which is why I deleted the above comments by someone claiming to know more about DRDO-developed EW suites and insisting very arrogantly that he/she is the final authority, but not even bothering to establish his/her professional credentials.

To Anon@11:30AM: Are yaar what did I lie about now? That I have taken up only temporary residence on Earth and that I'm a Martian? Kuch toh explanation deh dijiye. Meri khatah kya hai?

Anonymous said...

Yes indeed. All the comments including one which showed Sengupta to be totally off base with his so called understanding of EW systems were deleted by the chap. Shows an inferiority complex, that he cannot handle a viewpoint which contradicts his and is more accurate.

Anonymous said...

I;m merely trying in my blog to present facts supported by evidence (via photos, OEM-released brochures/catalogues etc), and not mere suppositions, which is why I deleted the above comments by someone claiming to know more about DRDO-developed EW suites and insisting very arrogantly that he/she is the final authority, but not even bothering to establish his/her professional credentials.


Your behaviour is ludicrous. If aforesaid person would present his/her credentials, you would threaten them as you did with HAL ppl at Ajai's blog. If they do not, and correctly point out loopholes in your claims- you delete them.

If you had guts - you would let their comments stand and let the observer judge them on their own merit. Which by the way is what Aroor does, despite all the shellacking he gets.

Dont be silly Prasun. You are on an ego trip. Only your actions will prove otherwise.

Regards,
Ravikant

Prasun K Sengupta said...

Well Ravikant, if that's your real name, in case you haven't noticed, this is MY blog and I reserve the final right to put anything on it and if you don't like it then just bugger off! You won't be missed. And for the record, I never threatened anyone from HAL, but merely asked them to reveal themselves and prove who they claim to be. Which of course they did not, nor did they shed any light on the Dhruv ALH's MILSPECs. On the contrary, only one of them came ahead and acknowledged (which I deeply appreciated) that the list of MILSPECs that I had uploaded was 73% correct. And no one has thus far 'correctly' proved any loopholes in my uploads. Instead, they only insisted arrogantly that they're right and the rest are wrong. And by not acknowledging them it is you that is sounding ludicrous and prepostrous! And as I said earlier, if you don't like what I'm stating and will continue to state, then do by all means stay away from this blog as your comments are neither illuminating, nor enlightening. I never invited you to post any comments in this blog and the kind of comments you've posted will NVER BE WELCOMED. Understand this once and for all and don't waste my time.

Anonymous said...

Dear Prasun,

Thanks for confirming whatever i just said.

Ravikant

Prasun K Sengupta said...

In fact, it must be I that should thank you for taking the trouble for responding so politely. If only others could emulate you (sigh).

Anonymous said...

Prasun, the man you hounded out was polite insofar as his original responses. If you look above, it is your subsequent response @ 1:01 PM which comes across as curt and dismissive. Reading the exchange, he seemed to respond abrasively and then cooled down. All I am saying is if you drive off those who do have more current information, and surely there will be ppl who come to this blog who might know more, its a sad thing.

BTW, do look up todays edition of the print Hindu. It confirms what our rather abrasive fellow was saying about a local decoy system and the Nagan.

BTW, in academics, there is a concept known as the peer review. Anonymous commentators can shred your hard work to pieces, and its part of the game. Do a doctorate with dissertation and you have to defend it against all sorts of chaps in the audience. They will be dismissive at first and focus on your past mistakes. But it goes.

And it makes you much tougher and better.

Those are my 2 Euros.

Regards,
Ravikant

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Ravikant: I'm afraid I disagree with your first sentence, but let's move on. Firstly, this 'abrasive fellow' was not saying anything at all yesterday that is in any way connected with what's appeared in the print edition of THE HINDU at: http://www.hindu.com/2008/10/03/stories/2008100356721300.htm

This 'abrasive fellow' was yesterday ranting about EW suites and the Sangraha programme. In fact, when he made his first abrasive remark I assumed it was aimed at the commentator who claimed that the Nagan ATAS was tested on INS Mumbai (when THE HINDU report says an OPV was used as the testbed). I don't think it is an OPV because the Navy does not operate any OPV, but has only AOPVs. So unless the Indian Coast Guard wants to acquire ATAS, I'll presume that the reporter from THE HINDU got confused between an OPV & AOPV. Also, this 'abrasive fellow' had nothing constructive or instructive to say. As far back as October 2005, I had extensive discussions on board INS Betwa with both the then CO of the FFG as well as with Admiral Sureesh Mehta (he was then a VADM & FOC-in-C ENC) about the Nagan, Ajanta & Ellora. Therefore, I very much resented this 'abrasive fellow's' automatic and prepostrous assumption about me engaging in 'small talk' with either the end-user or OEM.
But you're spot on regarding the merits/benefits of any peer review. And for your information, if it is any worth, I uploaded the story on the IN's EW Suites just to prove to 'this abrasive fellow' that he desperately needs to get off his high horse.
Going back to THE HINDU story, the reporter also seems to have missed the fact that the Nagan will not be a low-frequency ATAS, but a very low-frequency system. Also, another system being developed by the DRDO is the KAVACH offboard decoy dispensing system, details of which can be found on the MoD's Annual Report for 2007-2008 on pages 55 & 56. Cheers!

Anonymous said...

i said small talk prasun because you made several errors, which is unlikely to have occurred if u were indeed in long discussions

first, stop saying that the drdo and mod lied when they said absolute truth@ the time that ajanta was esm. later on, as part of system devt ecm was also added.

second: ur wrong when u talk of emi being issue when systems r together. it is basic issue of electromagnetics, known as blanking, u either shut off system during operation for receive or u blank out transmitting system for receive mode. there are many systems ww with colocated tx.rx which wudnt even exist if u were correct

like i said before i dont particularly mind ur mistake u dont work in the field so its ok, but keep an open mind when more info is given

now i will get off my "high horse"

when your information is right. then i dont have a horse at all.

third, good now about sangraha is a programme coz btw, ur new article also has a mistake, the ajanta was nvr part of sangraha

there r some other mistakes in the rticle too, but i dont prtclrly care since its better that way with external guys confused @ indian capability

lets see if u can stand above stated as polite as possible and let it stay without deleting.

@ Ravikant

thanks for ur words

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Anon@3:47PM: Never in my story have I said that either the DRDO or the MoD lied. I don't know where you got that from. FYI I have been 'engaging' in extended deliberations with several end-users for more than 2 decades on shipborne weapons/sensors, the current CNS and VCNS of the Indian Navy included. You're free to contact them directly to confirm this. As far as EMI cancellation/prevention is concerned I'm afraid your suggested 'solution' would imply that when the Shtil-1 is active the AK-100 gun shouldn't and go passive, when the Kashtan is active, the Shtil-1 should go passive or just shut off. I'm afraid if your approach to EMI elimination/minimisation/prevention is to just operate one weapon system at a time, then your suggested 'solution' will spell the doom for a principal surface combatant. However, if you want to prove me wrong and I'm perfectly willing to be proven wrong, can you then briefly explain what were the EMI challenges faced by the Project 1135.6 FFG and how exactly they were overcome? And how were the EMI challenges on board the P-15 DDG overcome when it came to EMI cancellation/prevention so thnat the on-board Barak-1s could operate with meighbouring or co-located transmitters/receivers as advertised? I'm asking you this because I too am well-versed with EMI-related theories, but would want to know first-hand from you the practical experiences, especially of the Indian Navy. You are of course free to now claim that on grounds of operational secrecy and loyalty to the institution that you serve, you are barred from revealing such information in public.
As to any other mistakes in my article, it would be far better if you corrected them through your comments as the interested parties (foreigners, foreign navies, whoever) too have operational threat libraries and adequate operational/financial resources at their disposal to figure out exactly what's in store for them should the shit hit the fan. As an ex-serviceman with combast experience I can tell you with certainty that it is not the technological superiority, but the warfighter's unique and innate operational art that produces deliberate, desired, decisive results.

Anonymous said...

Prasun, its very childish for you to say 'this is MY blog and I delete whoever's comments I like'. We know they r ur stories but you can only stay noble if you are willing to share this comment space with all types of people with all types of comments. Thats called being noble. Im writing in good faith. If somebody trolls saying they r frm DRDO or HAL or BEL or whatever the hell and u find that nonsense just ignore them. Let everyones comments be seen. How is it gonna harm u if they say bullshit? Your ignorance of their arrogance will only increase, not decrease your credibility. Please in future only delete only extremely disturbing comments like (e.g. FO bitc. mo fo prasun..) those kinda things. Hope u get my point.

Anonymous said...

u c some guy said 'prasun ur a liarr' n u seem so affected u give em an explanation. man u r sensitive like a women. just ignore prasunji.

Prasun here is some updates for u said...

BY : THE HINDU

Even as Pakistan prides itself as the first South Asian country to commission into service a diesel-electric submarine, PNS Hamza, which has an air-independent propulsion system, India is on the threshold of perfecting its indigenous state-of-the-art underwater surveillance mechanism as part of its Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) programme.

Nagan, the low frequency active-cum-passive towed array sonar system developed by the Naval Physical and Oceanographic Laboratory (NPOL), Kochi, with support from industrial partners such as Bharat Electronics (BE), Larsen and Toubro (L&T), Uniflex Cables and Keltron, is in the advanced stage of user evaluation trials.

Presently, the Navy operates passive only towed array sonar system from Thales (France) onboard a few platforms such as INS Mumbai, a Delhi-class guided missile destroyer.

“Nagan marks a major technological breakthrough as it is capable of long-range detection. It is meant for fitment onboard surface ships,” NPOL Director S. Ananthanarayanan told The Hindu. The NPOL, along with the Naval Science and Technological Laboratory (NSTL), Visakhapatnam, had earlier developed Maareech, an anti-torpedo system with towed and expendable decoys. The Hindu has learnt that the Navy has already placed orders with BE for three torpedo defence systems that would be installed on ships at the Mazagaon Dock Limited.

Nagan, however, is a more complex system. “Towed array sonar system consists of a sensor array that is towed behind a submarine or surface ship. It is basically a long array of hydrophones that is trailed behind the ship using a long cable when deployed. The hydrophones are placed at equal distance on the array. This sonar is much more effective in detecting and classifying the vessels being tracked at variable depths, as noise due to turbulence of own-ship propulsion will not corrupt the signals received from the target,” said Mr. Ananthanarayanan.

“Anti-submarine warfare addresses the technological challenges of detecting quieter targets in increasingly noisy environment and the issues of detection and decoying of torpedoes. Development of passive towed array sonars during the last two decades has increased detection ranges against relatively silent submarines by an order of magnitude over the ranges obtained by the commonly used hull-mounted active sonars. Indigenous development of towed arrays over the past two decades has led to substantial competence build-up and growth of several Indian industries, in the field of electro-hydraulic winches, high density underwater connectors, electro-opto-mechanical tow cables, acoustic sensors, electronic cabinets, high performance polymer strength members and the like.”

Challenges in towed array systems lie in the deployment and retrieval of array and the understanding of the dynamic interplay of oceanic conditions and tactical scenarios. Snapping of fibre optic cable because of hydrodynamic drag and excessive deployment, and retrieval time had been major issues in the initial stages. Those, however, have been overcome.

Nagan was tested on board an offshore patrol vessel and the trials were successful.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Anons@ 2.51AM & 2.54AM: Points well taken folks. Am now working on an analysis of how the Indian Navy's WESEE solved the EMI problems on board the Project 1135.6 FFG and P-15 Delhi-class DDGs.

Max said...

@Prasun

NVM on that hurry up on your ATV article. Also look forward to some updates on Agni development, Nirbhay, and your take on the "Surya ICBM program".

:-))

Anonymous said...

As far as EMI cancellation/prevention is concerned I'm afraid your suggested 'solution' would imply that when the Shtil-1 is active the AK-100 gun shouldn't and go passive, when the Kashtan is active, the Shtil-1 should go passive or just shut off. I'm afraid if your approach to EMI elimination/minimisation/prevention is to just operate one weapon system at a time, then your suggested 'solution' will spell the doom for a principal surface combatant. However, if you want to prove me wrong and I'm perfectly willing to be proven wrong, can you then briefly explain what were the EMI challenges faced by the Project 1135.6 FFG and how exactly they were overcome? And how were the EMI challenges on board the P-15 DDG overcome when it came to EMI cancellation/prevention so thnat the on-board Barak-1s could operate with meighbouring or co-located transmitters/receivers as advertised? I'm asking you this because I too am well-versed with EMI-related theories, but would want to know first-hand from you the practical experiences, especially of the Indian Navy. You are of course free to now claim that on grounds of operational secrecy and loyalty to the institution that you serve, you are barred from revealing such information in public.

dear prasun i am not going to talk about any specific programs aprt from telling u pblic details or giving pointers on where u cld be mistaken even there i have limitations we all do.

if it is avalable pblically then i can share it

and fyi, ur first comment is actually not as wrong as u urself think it is (will spell doom for a combatant)

timing diagrams are critical to developing and deploying systems. what is done is to generate a countermeasures map which goes into prjected threats, times of operation for overall coordination. then u check for noise/electrical strctural interference (this is actually a very big problem for most of our systems..generallty the russian kit is very emi resistant...but its very overengineered yaar, you can shave off 10 kilos of an installation for the way they do thingzs...ok, once u draw up a p plan for emi checklist then u do freq allocation in detail once u get into it...btw, its no secret this is what scrwed up several russkie prgrams for us (u shud know which ones) till they checked..after big delay..
then u go through detailed interference mapping and studdies with each set of parameters interating..u definitely need to keep an eye out for arcing...its a big issue for rf stuff..two nearby condctors at fll blast and u can get zappd..anyways will post in more dtal about an emi issue later..u can draw conclusions from that..which is why i say integrated systems r best...u design them from grnd up u know exactly what u need..and what they cn do..

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Anon@1:37PM: Many thanks for your detailed explanation in layman's terms. They are really appreciated. I' aware of the EMI problems of the illuminators for the Arsenal AK-190E main gun & the Shtil-1 on board the Project 1135.6 FFG. The EMI problems for Barak-1 were also another interesting cade. Will some day post some of them for public consumption. Have a great weekend.

Anonymous said...

for the moment lets 4get about project 15 or 16 or wateva crap.

prasun malaysia is near thailand rite how r d prostitutes there? r they hot? b'coz im going 2 phuket in mid-november. gimme some leads ok. please help another playboy. tq

Prasun K Sengupta said...

Hello!!! Getting me involved in solicitation are you? Prossies are prossies, the same everywhere. And beware of AIDS, no matter what protective measures you take. In Phuket town you have some massage parlours with fish-tanks and at nighttime you need to visit the go-go bars at Patong Beach.

Anonymous said...

I got a STD tester kit I bought from Ukraine and its quite accurate. No actually if you are well-versed theres a ton of difference between south asian, european, american & australian (~same), eurasian (wow) and east asian. This is my first time on SEA so just wanted to know your opinion in comparison with others. I mean how do they react, how long can last, how satisfied and the texture of their pussies, usually shaved or not etc.

Patong beach? thanks for the lead. Usually $$ ?

Anonymous said...

no offence man on my question.. just between guy n guy (doubt any girls come over on this forum).. believe so coz u were bred in more open community..

Prasun K Sengupta said...

No offense taken & none given. Have fun!

Anonymous said...

Sir, here is an excerpt from what you have written: ".. The M36E marine industrial gas turbine plant comprises four DT-59 reversible gas turbines grouped in two pairs, driving two propellers through two RG-54 gearboxes. There are four separate Russia-made gas turbine generators, two in each engine room, that drive two controllable pitch propellers through twin gearboxes. Also to be installed are twin Bergen/Garden Reach Shipbuilding & Engineering-built KVM-diesel engines each rated at 9,900hp."

Sir, just 3 questions on the P-15A for you:

1. how many props? and what types?

2. how many engines and gearboxes in the propulsion system?

3. What is the total propulsive horsepower?

Eagerly looking forward to your reply.

CG said...

Hello Prasun,

Can you upload the P15A Destroyer image into Wikimedia Commons? There is requirement for images in Wikipedia articles like this one. Thank you.

Thank you
CG

BeasF137 said...

Prasun, can you check the verity of the your statements as listed below?

1. Also to be fitted .. one S-band ELTA EL/M-2248 MF-STAR active phased-array multi-purpose radar and one EL/M-2238 L-band STAR low-level medium-range surveillance radar.

2. The offboard countermeasures dispensing systems will be ELBIT Systems’ Deseaver (same as that on board the IN’s three existing Project 16A Brahmaputra-class DDGs).


3. The integrated platform management system (IPMS) will be supplied by Canada-based L-3 MAPPS,


4. ..while the MoD-owned Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL) will supply the Electronic Modular Command & Control Applications (EMCCA Mk4) combat management system, CCS Mk4 composite communications system and an ATM-based broadband integrated shipborne data network.