Thursday, January 29, 2009

Dhruv ALH's Defensive Aids Suite



The CIDAS defensive aids suite has already selected by the Indian Air Force (IAF) for installation on board its 16 armed Dhruv ALH helicopters on order from HAL, and will also find its way on board the Light Combat Helicopter, whose first prototype will be rolled out this March. In addition, the CIDAS will also most likely be on board the to-be-upgraded Ka-28PL, Ka-31 and Sea King Mk42B helicopters and the initial 16 yet-to-be-selected shipborne ASW/ASV helicopters of the Indian Navy, and also on the 60 armed Dhruv ALHs that the Indian Army will be procuring for its projected Combat Aviation Brigade, which will also be employed for vertical envelopment operations in support of expeditionary amphibious warfare campaigns. A version of CIDAS also exists for combat aircraft and will in all probability be selected for installation on board the Su-30MKI in the near future, since the Su-30MKIs lack on-board missile approach warning systems and laser warning systems. The RMAF Su-30MKMs are already equipped with CIDAS.—Prasun K. Sengupta

29 comments:

Anonymous said...

DARE & EADS were jointly developing a Missile warning system. whatever happened to that.

DRDO has already developed RWR for combat aircraft and we chose israeli ECM for combat aircraft.

So why not do the same for helicopters. Even Hind attack helicopters were upgraded with israeli electronics.

sachin_sathe said...

can u also post in detail abt the self defence suit in LCA? also post abt meapon systems tht are going on-board the armed variant of ALH.

Anonymous said...

If my memory stands correct......I remmeber like Mr.Ashok bhaweja HAL chairman saying that LCH will be rolled out in 2 years as a prototype once the project is sanctioned.And the first mock display was put to public at Aero india 2003.

Any idea why it is taking that long?

And Mr.HAL raises its hands for each and every thing they are capable of.right from FGFA,MTA,LOH,....

seems like each and every public sector is gud in delivering words apart from showing work.

They are just modifying the old ALH.Using the same old engine which was being developed with Turbomecca.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Anon@3:14AM: It is not DARE and EADS, but DARE and SaabTech that is co-developing the MILDS AN/AAR-60 missile approach warning system (MAWS), which forms only 1 component of the defensive aids suite. Actually, the MAWS is of South African origin. What happened was that EADS ewation (Germany) and Grintek Ewation (South Africa), decided to merge by 2001/ This was followed by SaabTech taking a stake in Avitronics (part of Grintek of South Africa). So what you have now is a Swedish company now owning both the 2 South African companies (Grintek and Avitronics) as well as the EADS-Grintek joint venture. Therefore, in conclusion, the prime contractor for supplying the CIDAS defensive aids suite will be SaabTech. The DARE-developed Tarang family of RWRs will be part of CIDAS, with the MAWS and LWRs coming from SaabTech. DARE by itself has been unable to develop an integrated defensive aids suite. There was an alternate defensive aids suite developed for the Dhruv ALH by Israel Aerospace Industries but that was for export markets in Latin America only. It will be interesting to see who supplies the laser obstacle avoidance system for the Dhruv--EADS or Italy's Finmeccanica.

To Anon@6:53AM: The first LCH prototype is due for rollout this March. Let's see what happens. By the way, it was TATA Consultancy Services (TCS) that supplied the CATIA-based CAD software to HAL and taught HAL's ARDC howe to use it. Consequently, the HJT-36 IJT's and the LCH's detailed design stages were compressed successfully. But till this day HAL has not even publicly acknowledged it! The engine for the LCH will be the uprated Ardiden/Shakti. There's actually nothing wrong if an existing airframe is modified while maintaining the earlier powerplant and transmissions. This saves time, especially for airworthiness aspects. In fact, the LCh should be acquired by the Indian Army (as a light armed aeroscout), by the IAF (for all-weather light attack as well as anti-UAV operations), and the Indian Navy (as a shipborne all-weather attack platform to support amphibios operations). If this were the case, then a case can be made for series-producing some 200 LCHs, which again will have a moderate export potential.

Anonymous said...

dear prasun sengupta,

please refer to the past topic about india's atgm purchases where i have posted a comment. i am continuing it there tokeep it in line. left this message as i was not sure ifyou still pursue that topic.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

In fact, since April 2006 SaabTech also owns Aerospace Monitoring and Systems (Pty) Ltd, another South African company that supplied the HUMS suite and digital flight data recorders for the Su-30MKI. Therefore, Saabtech is now also the frontrunner for installing the integrated defensive aids suite (including the LWR and MAWS) on the Su-30MKI in future.

Void Walker said...

" it was TATA Consultancy Services (TCS) that supplied the CATIA-based CAD software to HAL and taught HAL's ARDC howe to use it. Consequently, the HJT-36 IJT's and the LCH's detailed design stages were compressed successfully"
-----------------------------------

r u serious abt it? most of us had received CAD training during our colg yrs...and CATIA and related sftwres were in use much before I joined ......infact ADA developed a much better product- Autolay , which was sold to EADS ,who consequently used it to design Airbus A380.

Void Walker said...

and one more thing...while in Israel ,I found out something very interesting abt our "homegrown Mahindra AXE"...i hope someone prepares a good story on it.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

You're right, but I'm talking about HAL's in-house CAD expertise for the HJT-36, not about ADA & its Autolay. What role did TCS play in designing the HJT-36?

Anonymous said...

Void Walker buddy, since you got the story about the M&M Axe please share it with us. Like previously u can mail it to shiv aroor for him to post. look forward 2 seeing it! cheers!!

Prasun K Sengupta said...

You mean other than the well-known fact that the AXE's IPR and production engineering drawings were bought wholesale by Mahindra Defence from the Israel-based original designer? What's new? That was public knowledge two years ago, wasn't it?

Void Walker said...

well, i got to meet the guy, who designed it...and actually saw the first prototype that was tested for 2 yrs in the Negev desert....IDF has already placed orders for 215 units... all this keeps me wondering .....have we gone the paki way????? buying equipment from our friends and after giving it a nice coat of paint, proclaiming that it was all indegenious.......the funny thing is that AXE even got an award for the best indegenious design.. anyway,atleast we can hav the satisfaction in seeing a 'Mahindra' branded product in this years' Dakar Rally. one more interesting thing is that the one of the candidates for the Army LSV tender is an OFB one ....but is in fact the Flyer (which was tested along with AXE and others for the Israeli tender)

Anonymous said...

Walker ji , did u get time to meet those sexy IDF babes.....man, they are so hot!!!!!no wonder the PLA guys get defeated so easily!

Anonymous said...

I once tried to talk to an IDF babe.....she gave me a nice stare and casually turned her back...it was then that I saw an M-16 hanging from her shoulder....man,it scared the shit outta me.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Void Walker: In case you missed it, I had last year posted the AXE's brochure at: http://trishulgroup.blogspot.com/2008/12/mahindra-defences-axe-4-x-4-fav.html

Last April when the AXE was showcased at the DSA 2008 defence expo in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, I had the opportunity to minutely examine the LSV and found out that only the diesel engine and gearbox are imported, and all the rest of the dynamic automotives and accessories have been acquired from local Indian vendors. Oh, the Kevlar-based bullet-resistant panels and shatter-proof transparencies are also being imported directly from Israel's Plasan Sasa (this deal was negotiated by a good friend of mine who was earlier heading RAFAEL's office in Singapore but is now wth Plasan Sasa). The Flyer is an interesting case, as there are two OEMs for it: US-based Aerospace Dynamics International, and Singapore's ST Kinetics. I believe OFB has teamed up with the latter as its industrial partner.

To Anon@1:06PM: Believe me, these 'IDF babes' look attractive only externally. Once you begin 'peeling off the banana skin' the feminity and rationality physically disappears. For the past four years I've attended the annual counter-terrorism expos-cum-seminars there and reached the conclusion that psychologically they're quite vulnerable and loathe to take the higher moral ground. For instance, their main motivation in the battlefield is that they face an existential threat, hence there's no turning back. This was all the more evident in their operational planning for the recently-concluded Gaza offensive when they may have achieved their tactical objectives, but lost out in the PR war thanks to their hyper-extreme reluctance to sustain human casualties, even if it means killing children in the process. I once even tried in vain to explain to them why upholding the higher moral ground ought to be ingrained into an tactical scenario when undertaking MOUT ops, irregardless of whether or not the enemy upholds the same principles in an assymmetric battlefield. I guess it all boils down to both the Israelis and Palestinians having their own respective 'attitude problems' that prevents the emergence of some kind of 'middle ground'. And by the way, since Palestinians are now PNG within Israel as far as skilled and unskilled workers go, there are currently some 12,000 Pakistanis working there, not creating any trouble at all, and remitting their monthly wages from there via Western Union.

Void Walker said...

the AXE version I saw there,including the first prototype had no Indian components....it was just like an assembled PC...I believe the Mahindra version will have desi components + a home grown engine......I was even taken for a test drive.. believe me, the suspension for that vehicle s simply amazing......I'm eagerly looking for the civi version (around Rs 2 million).

Anonymous said...

prasun, tata says their LSV has stealth features....how does it work? and whats that thing fitted on the front bumper of their lsv? is it a winch?

Prasun K Sengupta said...

The AXE will retain the Ssangyong powerpack as it makes no economic sense to develop a homegrown engine and gearbox. The TATA LSV has a bumber-mounted winch. The LSV is also coated with radar-absorbing paint.

Anonymous said...

void walker said:

" IDF has already placed orders for 215 units "


Sir,

the 215 units order from Mahindra or who?

Anonymous said...

prasunji,
what's the use of that winch in the front of the vehicle? and why do they hav to use RAM paint? is for avoiding weapon locating radars or airborne radars? is being 'Stealthy' a necessary feature for the lsv tender......do others have it?
Btw,I sincerely thought the stealthness in TATA's lsv was in the shape & design of the vehicle .
It has a big bonnet while the cabin looks compressed from front view...ur comments on it?

Lt.Col. Shuvadeep said...

prasun, r u coming to aero india? where can I meet u during the show?

Anonymous said...

If the Indian military is interested in the LCH then where does the armed version of the Dhruv revealed last year fit in? The armed Dhruv's mount for the sensors in front does look shoddy!

Prasun K Sengupta said...

The LCH for the IAF is optimised as a high-altitude attack platform and also for combatting MALE UAVs. The Army has not yet committed itself to the LCH. The Army's armed Dhruv ALH variant is to be used for air-assault purposes and is thus not a dedicated attack helicopter.

Anonymous said...

Well then if they have/plan to have these two different types of gunships then why has the IAF invited bids for supply of 22 attack helicopters from foreign vendors? Also I read that HAL is designing a light attack helicopter. What kind of roles do these different helos fit in?

Prasun K Sengupta said...

The 22 attacks helicopters to be imported will be dedicated heavy attack helicopters, and will not be able to operate at altitudes at which the LCH will be required to operate. HAl has already completed designing the LCH and is now designing a single-engined version of the Dhruv ALH, and this will be known as the light utilty helicopter (LUH) variant.

Anonymous said...

Is it (LAH ) the Lancer

Prasun K Sengupta said...

No, the Lancer is an existing SA.315B Lama (Cheetah) that is lightly armed with only 4 2.75-inch rockets. The SA.315B Lama (Cheetah) has also been further upgraded into the 'Cheetal' through fitment of the Turbomeca TM-333-2B engine and modified gearbox. But the LUH is a totally different project and it is HAL's proposal for meeting the tri-services reqmt for a common LUH/LOH for which the Bell 407 ARH and Eurocopter AS.550B3 were shortlisted two years ago.

Anonymous said...

Prasunji ,pls answer mi questions posted at Jan 31, 2:28pm.

Anonymous said...

cidas is not being used on ALH but a locally configured system using both OEM and local eqpt.