Saturday, July 11, 2009

SSGN Design For Indian Navy



69 comments:

Anonymous said...

Isnt this Nerpa?

Prasun K Sengupta said...

Are you kidding? Compare the Akula-2's photos with this SSGN's and you will see the difference for yourself. This SSGN's design was customised for India and its dimensions are similar to France's Barracuda SSN. Also note that the SSGN's CIC (housing the combat management system) is half the size that of the Akula-2's. The Akula-2 was originally designed to neutralise the undersea warfare threats emanating from US Navy carrier battle groups and therefore has a weapons complement far more than what's required by the Indian Navy. Hence the India-specific SSGN is closer to the Barracuda in terms of size and performance. I took the SSGN scale-model's photo at the IMDS 2005 expo in St Petersburg. The SSGN-launched nuclear warhead-carrying cruise missile is being co-developed by India and Israel.

sachin_sathe said...

prasun

the design indeed looks to be a heavily modified version of Akula 2.
If it is indeed similar in size to barracuda class then will it have VLS for cruise missiles or torpedo tube launched ones? bcoz then the sub will have submerged displaced close to 5500 tonnes.

Also, interestingly the charlie class has similar dimentions (source FAS org):
Project 670M / Charlie II
Displacement (tons):
4,500 surfaced 5,400 submerged
Speed (kts): 23 knots dived
16 kts surfaced
Dimensions (m): 102.0 meters long
10.0 meters beam
8.0 meters draft
Propulsion 1 VM-5 pressurized-water nuclear reactor
1 steam turbine 20,000 shp
1 5-bladed propeller
# Armament:

8 SS-N-9 Siren
6 21-in (533-mm) torpedo tubes (fwd)
12 torpedoes or
2 SS-N-15 Starfish

Also if u compare image of the Charlie class in following the model u posted & the charlie class will indeed have some similarities.

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/theater/pl670a.jpg

So it again seems to have proven my theory of indian polititians manipulating the media regarding projects SSGN as these as they Leaked its similarity to Charlie class
but it is actually much more capable than charlie class

Anonymous said...

what will be its displacement mr prasun? and has RnD on the missile started? And lastly when is it due for testing

Anonymous said...

...and that means is the sub completely designed at russia?

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Sachin Sathe: As you may be well aware, Soviet/Russian R & D efforts on SSGNs/SSBNs have taken the evolutionary path and therefore there are bound to be similarities between present-day designs and those SSGNs/SSBNs built in the past. But the SSGN designed for India is indeed a derivative of, albeit much smaller than, the Akula 2 SSGN. The submerged displacement of this SSGN will not be more than 6,000 tonnes andR & D work on the cruise missile began two years ago. Kindly pay close attention to the cruise missile's design and see its external similarity to the Barak-8ER LR-SAM. The cruise missiles will be launched from modified torpedo tubes, and will not be vertically-launched.
The SSGN is a 100% Russian design as no one entity/design authority in India is capable of designing even diesel-electric SSKs, leave alone SSGNs and SSBNs. Also, there are no dedicated shore-based submarine design hydrodynamic test facilities reqd for refining the design of SSKs or SSGNs within India. Therefore the only solution had to be an imported one. Will post further details on this issue soon.

Kalyan said...

Hi Prasun,

can you please elaborate on the "SSGN-launched nuclear warhead-carrying cruise missile is being co-developed by India and Israel" -- what part(s) of the missile will be Indian? Specifically what part of it is India relying on Israel for?

Will India be able to completely manufacture the missile in-house after the development?

Is this also related to Nirbhay or completely different from that?

Where does the engine for the missile come from?

Finally - hopw will it circumvent the MTCR guidelines?

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Kalyan: All critical components of the SSGN-launched cruise missile will be built in-country, just as those for the Barak-8 MR-SAM and Barak-8ER LR-SAM will. The cruise missile's propulsion system (using both a solid propellant-based booster and its turbofan (for the mid-flight stage) have already been developed by Israel. The question of breaching or circumventing any MTCR guidelines does not arise as both India and Israel are not signatories to the MTCR regime. The Nirbhay UAV is a totally different issue and has nothing to do with the R & D efforts of the SSGN-launched cruise missile.

Kalyan said...

Hi Prasun,

thanks for the reply. It is encouraging to know that all critical components will be built in the country. If third party is interested in the system - how will the business be handled (both interms of 'selection' of the customer & revenue sharing), will India/DRDO still have a role; like the Brahmos model!

Is there any ToT planned for the turbofan that will be used (atleast, say enough for complete indigenous manufacture?)Or we will have to source it from Israel?
Is there any thing in the deal that does not make it completely saction-proof!

What kind of turbofan/turbojet is planned to be used on the Nirbhay?

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Kalyan: All components of the cruise missile, including its turbofan, will be built in-country. But one thing is clear: in today's world nothing is sanction-proof. We need to live with that reality. As for the Nirbhay, it will have the 36MT turbofan from Russia's NPO Saturn.

sachin_sathe said...

prasun
if it displaces less than 6k tonnes then it has to be single hull sub. I sence double implecations in this approach from DRDO & IN as this will help develop many systems(& hardware) to construct future subs(including ssk's) as it is always better to use a fully functioning design/method to develop critical tech.Basically just a continuation of IN's methodology of building surface ships.

also the design is nothing but adaptation of air-launched supersonic cruise missile as it will help enourmously in reducing developement cost.

Have u seen the Aug 09 Tech Focus issue? Wht r ur thoughts on Abhay ICV specs? and other projects?

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Sachin Sathe: Yes, it will be single-hulled. And the sub-launched cruise missile is an adaptation of the ADM. Will focus on the Abhay ICV in a future posting.

Nava said...

What is this ADM derivative's guidance method? How about range?

Anonymous said...

A sub launched version of the Shaurya seems a good option for the SSGN. can we adapt the Shaurya to be launched from torpedo tubes of subs?

Anonymous said...

but i reckon you previously quoted it to be double hull

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Nava: By 2001 the sub-launchecd cruise missile's range was a projected 1,500km but this was later revised by 2003 to "between 800km and 1,000km" as the initial figure was deemed unrealistic and unnecessary. By early 2007 the RAFAEL-IAI combine had come up with a cruise missile design that could be both air-launched and sub-launched. This family of cruise missiles will carry tactical nuclear warheads, and not conventional warheads. The guidance system will therefore be a combination of ring laser gyro-based inertial navigation system and an X-band synthetic aperture radar using scene correlation/matching algorithm, i.e. something similar to the X-band SAR used by the BrahMos' land attack variant.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Anon@10:08AM: No, not for the SSGN. But yes for the ATV technology demonstrator.

Nava said...

Thanks. Sounds quite promising. Again you deserve credit for being the only (as far as I could tell) defense blog\magazine that has posted these pictures and in fact I saw them
later in the main Israeli defense blog\forum.

A project this sensitive won't I assume be announced to much fanfare, but could you ascertain when the ADM will be inducted?

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Nava: The projected operational availability timeframe calls for flight-testing to begin by 2011 and low-rate series-production to begin by 2013.

Anonymous said...

Prasun ,this could be one of the many models Malachite may have come with and I have seen such models before from that design house.

What makes you so sure this is an Indian SSGN design by Malachite for us ?

sachin_sathe said...

prasun

where does the DRDO then stands in this scheme of ADM?

Regarding the ATV projects it lookes like the 1st sub is the tech demonstrator and a submerged lab.While the other two ships r SSGN's which i think r expected to be launched around 2012.

Coming back to the sdm(s for submarine replacing a for air) i think the 800-1000km range bracket is accepted bcoz the targets for it r not as long distanced as the ones for TAC-TOM also if the weight of the missile(but air launched & sub launched) can be kept around 1500-2000kg then it will indeed be an excellent achievement.

Also i expect the SSBN would be closer in resemblance to the to the new french SSBN but smaller as the indian sub is expected to carry only 12 missiles not 16.

Can-Indian said...

Regarding the ATV projects it lookes like the 1st sub is the tech demonstrator and a submerged lab.While the other two ships r SSGN's which i think r expected to be launched around 2012.

===================================

Just in case if....

The SSGN as reported by Prasun Sengupta is a Indian Design considered for the 2nd series subs meant to complement the Scorpene series. It is not sure, whether there will be at present a foreign tender for the 2nd line of subs.

SSN and SSBN are totally a different category and SSGN will be limited in capability in comparison. It will be considered as first arc of local shore defence and SLOC. Colloquially it will be a substitute for AIP SSK.

I guess Prasun Sengupata will add more to this..

Can-Indian said...

The psuedo name for Indian SSN and SSBN is ATV

sachin_sathe said...

Can-Indian

The scorpene is intended for shallow water defence and the second libe ssk(rfp of whose is to be floated ) is for more offencive ops. also both are more in regards to countering PN

If u consider the likely areas of conflict between IN & PLAN i(can use google earth if u want) it becomes pretty clear tht the SSGN developement is for deployment with carrier group &/or SSBN for protecting them or strictly for offensive duties(SSK's even with AIP are useless here).

Also Using SSGN for shore defence against pakistan is an overkill as all the land targets in Pakistan can be hit either by land based cm's or air launched cruise missiles

u r thoughts prasun?

raj said...

Raj

Hi, I have not understood the pics of missile. which are these missiles and how come they have both turbofan engine and solid fuel or it seems i got it wrong!

Pierre Zorin said...

Probably out of place but seeing this is the current post have to ask PKS. I am a tank fan.In your opinion which could be rated as the best tank in the world and which could be the five top tanks? Any of them useful in the Indian context? Also what do you think about Leopard 2 A6 and the Croatian Degman M-95? I promise to speak now and forever hold my peace on this topic!

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Anon@8:25PM: Have you spoken face-to-face with any submarine designer from Malachite? Or have you attended any of the IMDS expos in St Petersburg? Because if you did these two things you wouldn't have posed the questions that you did earlier.

To Sachin Sathe: The DRDO's involvement is via its Project Sagarika office.

To Can-Indian: The Indian Navy's first operational SSGN will not touch any saline water till 2017. The SSGNs' primary role will be to protect the SSBN against hostile SSGNs and carrier battle groups, with secondary long-range land attack capability.

To Raj: A cruise missile like the SSGN-launched one illustrated above has three stages of flight: boost phase (with rocket), post-boost phase (with turbofan), and the terminal guidance phase either in a conventional ballistic trajectory or a depressed ballistic trajectory (again with rocket propulsion).

To Pierre Zorin: That's quite easy and I dare say, indisputable: Leopard 2A6, Leclerc, M-1A2 Abrams, ZTZ-99G (from China), Challenger 2. The Leopard 2 family has been the role-model for both the CVRDE and the Indian Army and it was therefore no surprise that Krauss Maffei-Wegmann was selected to perform the industrial/shopfloor-related QC audits of the Heavy Vehicles Factory's Arjun Mk1 final assembly line at Avadi.

Kaushik said...

Thanks a lot for your reply about Gen. Sundarji. Today I came across this obituary by the editor of Indian Express Shekhar Gupta for Gen. Sundarji.

http://www.indianexpress.com/ie/daily/19990210/iex10069.html

Kaushik said...

You left out Merkava Mark IV.

You say the army had the Leopard 2 in mind as a role model. Then when the Arjun was delayed why didn't the army go in for Leopard II as that would have the natural choice instead of the T-90 to satisfy the GSQR? The Germans did not agree?

Anonymous said...

I am a tank fan.In your opinion which could be rated as the best tank in the world and which could be the five top tanks?
----------------------------------
tanks are getting useless day by day,tanks are a good target nowdays

there is no tank in the world which is foolproof and every armour can be breached by anti tank missiles

and RPG/mines can take care of engine section/chasis which has enough power to destroy engine of a tank and this makes a tank useless

as far as western tanks are concerned they are twice as costly than russki tanks

but i would like if prasun can post something on new russian tank which has 152mm main gun and this tank more resembles to western tanks.

indranil said...

The Type 99 has an autoloader housed in the crew compartment like the Russian T series, something taken as a design flaw by Ajai Shukla and you. Yet you rank it as one of the top 5 tanks?

Anonymous said...

in 2006 merkava mk4 went to lebanon and lebanese blew those merkava into innumberable pieces even with old RPGs which can't be counted so it proves all tanks how good they are easier to destroy

subroto said...

Hi Prasun,

Can you confirm how many Akula II SSN submarines India will lease from Russia as per Agreement in 2004?

I believe lease submarine to be armed with the 300 KM range 3M- 54 Klub class cruise missile rather 3000 KM ‘Granit’ Nuclear capable cruise missile due to arms control restriction (MTCR). But, what about the anti-ship missile like Novator SS-N-15 ‘Starfish’ and SS-N-16 ‘Stallion’. Are we getting those missiles with the Submarine or it will arm with the “Type 65 Torpedo” and “Type 53 Torpedo”.

Anonymous said...

SIR, WHY DONT THE SSBN/SSKN BY MALACHITE TO INDIA USE LATEST TECHNOLOGY LIKE PUMP WATERJET INSTEAD OF TURBINE? ALL THE NEW SUBMARINES OF THE WORLD USE JET TECHNOLOGY EVEN BOREY CLASS OF RUSSIA.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Kaushik: Oops! Forgot to add the Merkava Mk4 to the list. It should have been mentioned for sure. Now, regarding the T-90S being selected and the Leopard 2 MBT not being selected there were two primary reasons: Firstly, it would have been quite hyprocratic on India's part to order the Leopard 2 when as far back as 1973 India had arrogantly spurned the French offer to co-develop the Leclerc MBT with the CVRDE. Secondly, the Leopard 2 was in the late 1990s not being offered with the 1,500hp MTU engine. The issue of the Army's GSQR is one big joke and embarrassment and makes a mockery of the MBT selection process, simply because the Indian Army HQ is the only one to issue TWO separate GSQRs for procuring a single type of weapon system: one for the Arjun Mk1 and another for the T-90S. If no one else in the world is implementing such ridiculous and contradictory procurement practices, then I fail to understand how the Indian Army can justify such an exceptional procurement decision.

To Indranil: Kindly re-read my earlier MBT rankings. I have made no mention of any Type 99 MBT which you refer to. I had mentioned only the ZTZ-99G MBT.

To Subroto: The Indian navy is leasing only 1 (one) Akula-3 (not Akula-2) SSGN. The weapons complement will include Klub-S cruise missiles and TEST-71 torpedoes.

To Anon@1:04PM: Why? I have no idea.

sachin_sathe said...

prasun

what are differences between Akula 2 & 3?Can u post abt status of indian Heavy weight torpedo?

Regarding the Abhay ICV its specs look similar to the CV-90 with both having 23 tonne weight 40mm main cannon & so on. ur thoughts?

is there any system like the IDAS in developement in india or somwhere else? Also comment on the IDAS.

ABHINABA said...

Prasun da, please inform about normal service life of a SSGN,destroyer & frigate & why India navy is leasing 1 SSGN (Akula class-3) for 10 years?why not buying it for life-time? Finally, can you give me some extra info.
about DRDO's mark 2 electro optical targetting system (posted in livefiest)?

Anonymous said...

Sir,

I am a regular reader of your blog.You are doing a fine job in answering the different queries.I wanted to know regarding the ADM that whether it will be a ramjet powered missile or turbojet powered.In your post on ADM dated November 15,2008 you have mentioned that the ADM will be both conventionally & nuclear armed and it will be powered by a liquid fueled ramjet with initial accelerators which will give it a cruise speed of Mach 2.2 at an altitude of 200 meters which will increase to Mach 3 in its terminal cruise phase at an altitude of 50 meters.But here you have mentioned it will be powered by a turbojet in its mid-flight cruise stage and in the terminal stage it will follow a either a conventional ballistic or depressed ballistic trajectory.And also the missiles will not carry any conventional warhead contrary to your previous post on ADM. Sir please clear my doubts.

Anonymous said...

How much is Pak spending on F-16? They were originally supposed to acquire 36 F-16Blk50/52 for $3 billion, that's $83 million a piece!
Additionally $650 million are for weapons. Does a blk52 with weapons costs $90-100 million?

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Sachin Sathe & ABHINABA: You can find further information on the Akula 3 here: http://trishulgroup.blogspot.com/2008/12/lifting-lid-off-project-india.html

Wll post the balance of the replies later tonight.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Anon@11:09PM: You're absolutely right, up to a year ago the intention was to go for the ramjet-powered ADM and sub-launched cruise missile. However, this option was considered a very risky one, especially after the Navy insisted on launching the missile from torpedo tubes instead of dedicated VLS cells. This brought forward two options: either develop two different cruise missiles, or standardise on one missile-type. Consequently, it was decided to develop a single missile with dual applications (air-launched and sub-launched) and do away with the ramjet-based propulsion system. The option for a conventionally-armed cruise missile still remains and has not yet been discarded.

Anonymous said...

to prasun
can submarine launched popeye missile be integrated to kilo class.

Anonymous said...

prasun,

it seems like ATV is going to be akula3 cuz its lighter than akula3

as you said that ATV is around the size of barracuda class sub

so it will be called ATV in india and if russians induct it they will call it akula3

Anonymous said...

sorry

it seems like ATV is going to be akula3 cuz its lighter than akula2

Anonymous said...

Prasun da,

What will be the speed of this turbojet powered ADM.All turbojet powered cruise missiles have got lesser speed than ramjet powered cruise missiles and are prone to interception even by the Barak-1.Will the turbojet powered NUCLEAR ADM be as effective as any ramjet powered cruise missile like the Brahmos in defeating the S-300/S-400 anti-missile system that the PLA employs.
Of speed and maneuverability of a cruise missile which the Brahmos has,which helps more in defeating anti missile system. Prasun da please answer my queries.

sachin_sathe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
sachin_sathe said...

prasun

There were rumors abt russia developing a 6000-7000 tonne ssn more in line with western trends is it possible tht the SSGN design is one of such designs and was given to india without reactor placement and other details which were then completed by DRDO & BARC(who i think will build reactors) so as to scoot under the net of START,NPT or such treaties?

The SSGN design by Malachite fits rights in. I think such sub would be more cost effective to operate.
sort of like the difference between FGFA & PAK-FA.wht do u think?

regarding the ADM the similarities between the MRSAL and ADM suggest tht it may be able to achieve mach4+ speed in terminal stage. Also such arrange means tht it can be used in bunker buster mode.

Also with the the ADM can also be developed as surface launched varient replacing BrahMos.Reducing the cost even lower.If the third stage cylinder is kept common with motor and seeker(warhead will be larger for cruise missile) then it would meen confirmed production of nearly 5000+ missiles(including surface to air versions as MRSAM). Meaning big time cost savings and thus making it more feasible than BrahMos whose range is not only capped at 300kms but also cost enormously.

wht do u think?

Anonymous said...

Sir,

What is the status of SCRAM JET technology in India? Apart from the Brahmos-2 are there any any future plans to develop scram-jet powered long range nuclear cruise missiles as such missiles can defeat any current/future anti-missile system that the Chinese employs.

Anonymous said...

Will the IAF Mirage 2000 get RDY-2 or RDY-3 in the upcoming upgrade?

Raghav said...

1. In one of your earlier posts you said Russia has nothing to do with the ATV. But when the Naval shipyards have not been able to build ordinary diesel electric subs, how come we were able to build the ATV which being nuclear powered is far more complex to build than SSKs.

2. K-15/Shourya seems a good option for our SSGN because it is already an SLBM and so needs only slight modification to fire from torpedo tubes. It is as good as cruise missile as it follows depressed ballistic trajectory and can attack future Chinese CBGs or also attack offshore installations. What is ur opinion?

ABHINABA said...

Prasun da, you did not answer on my 1st & 3rd quaries.

Anonymous said...

(ANON 1.04)

SO SIR, YOU ALSO REALLY DONT KNOW WHY THIS SUBMARINE IS A VERY LOW TECHNOLOGICAL ONE? NO VLS AND NOT WATERJET SYSTEM MAYBE AN OFF THE SHELF DESIGN OF SOME RUSSIAN PROTOTYPE FROM THE 70S THAT COULDNT BE BUILT DUE TO SOVIET POOR FINANCES. AND NOW MALACHITE IS RECYCLING IT.WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ON THIS THEORY SIR? THANKS YOU

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Sachin Sathe: The Abhay ICV in my view should have been introduced into service along with the Arjun MK1 MBT as a 'hunter-killer' team. An IDAS-like system is being jointly developed by the DRDO and RAFAEL. It will be derived from the Python-5. Regarding the SSGN design from Malachite, only the non-nuclear modules have been supplied by Malachite. As far as the nuclear reactor goes, it is a derivative of a civilian reactor originally designed for civilian ice-breakers. This same reactor design was 'reverse-engineered' by the DAE and is also on board the ATV technology demonstrator. As for the air-launched ADM it will definitely be more capable than the BrahMos as the 290km-range limitation will not apply. The terminal flight phase of the ADM will definitely be supersonic.

To ABHINABA: There's no way anyone will a permanent sale of any SSGN or SSBN as it violates the NPT.

To Anon@5:58AM: The ATV is a technology demonstrator and will never be inducted into operational service. The Akula-3 on the other hand is an operational SSGN.

To Anon@7:20AM: Even without the ADM the S-300/S-400 can be defeated and overcome. How? Through an air campaign's 'operational art'. The ADM and sub-launched cruise missile will use its turbofan only in the cruise phase while in the terminal phase the solid rocket motor will kick in.

To Anon@5:55AM: Why should a sub-launched Popeye go on board a Kilo-class SSK when the 3M14E Club-S is available?

To Anon@7:39AM: I'm not aware of the BrahMos 2 emerging with scramjets. All that BrahMos Aerospace has publicly stated thus far is that BrahMos 2's cruise speed will exceed Mach 5.

To Anon@7:57AM: It will be the RDY-2, so that the upgrade costs can be keep affordable. It still is a sheer waste of money. Far better to spend the money on acquiring additional Su-30MKIs rather than waste it on upgrading the MiG-29s and Mirage 2000s. This continues to be my personal stand.

To Raghav: Russia did not supply any made-to-order hardware for the ATV. That's what I meant. Only after the ATV validates several key design/performance attributes
will the MoD decide which shipyard will manufacture the SSGNs and SSBN. All indications are that it will be MDL in Mumbai, with companies like L & T, Jindal Steel and TATA Electric (and their foreign industrial ToT partners) emerging as the major sub-contractors. MDL has already begun the process of acquiring additional real estate for constructing a dedicated final assembly line for the SSGNs/SSBN.
Regarding the Shourya, even if its range can be increased to 1,200km I don't think it will be ideal for the SSBN. Sub-launched ballistic missiles are usually launched from VLS, and not from torpedo tubes.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Anon@12:05PM: Before we can jump to any conclusions, can you kindly do your own research into this subject and find out exactly how many SSGNs and SSBNs are presently operational with such underwater propulsion systems?

Anonymous said...

Prasun Da,

Are there any plans to develop long range (150 km) ram-jet propelled AAM like the Meteor or Denel Aerospace 100+ km PL-21 AAM for the PLAAF and the PAF.How good is the PL-21 compared to the Meteor?

What about the plan to develop the long range ram-jet propelled R-77 AAM proposed by the Russians to equip the PAK-FA/FGFA and the upgrade SU-30MKI's? What will be the range of this AAM? Will it be better than the METEOR?

If India decides to buy the Hornetts then will Uncle Sam give us the AIM-120D AAM?

sachin_sathe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
sachin_sathe said...

prasun,

Tht is what i meant. By designing non-nuclear modular and carrying out quietning process it(Malachite) stoned 3 birds it got royalties for such sale,developed newer quietening and noise suppression(non-nuclear) systems for next-gen russian ssn/ssgn and stayed legal at the same time a win-win situation for bot India and Ru.

As far as the reverse engineering reactor goes i guess it is the right path as it allow the DAE & BARC to give proper time and knowledge to develope an indian reactor(probably based on CHTR project)

Regarding the M2k upgrade i think they r going to extensively upgrade the aircraft with TOT(which may become an advantage for Rafale(regarding(weapon systems)) also the deal includes MICA missiles which i heard are quite expensive.So it really depends upon the upgrade list as far as cost is concerned.If a missile like MICA is being imported in large nos along with a new anti-radiation missile and ability to integrate Iseraeli weapons then it would be as expensive as it is predicted. Also with coming induction of MMRCA and LCA the load of pricision and surgical strikes tht was on M@K will also reduce(the newer Jag upgrade reduces it even further.)
Also the french weapons have always been expensive but they have always given splendid performance when required.

The MDL is a logical choice as it will have garnered some precious experience and the Know-how along with Hardware in the scorpene project for Non-nuclear modular production.With the announcement large scale disinvestment in PSU's we can expect the political hassels and MOD's non-performance in paper-pushing to be reduced greatly .

Nava said...

Prasun:

Could you say a few words about this IDAS like system? Do you have a sketch of the interceptor?

Anonymous said...

Yo NAVA,

You may find information on IDAS here:
http://trishulgroup.blogspot.com/search?q=IDAS

I thought you are following this blog seriously.

Nava said...

Why the hostility? I did look into that link (before you referred me to it that is) and all it says is that the system's range is 12 KM and that the development efforts began in 2006. I was wondering when the system would be fielded, what the interceptor might look like, whether it used the Python 5's motor and unique design or just the seeker, whether a fiber optic link would be incorporated (as is the case with the German system) etc.

Nava said...

Actually check that. I didn't bother to look into your link as I thought it was the same one I saw. Actually what you posted has nothing to do with the IDAS I was talking about (your's is a defense aids suite for tanks...).

subroto said...

You have mentioned in detail about the Indian GPS satellites program (GAGAN) in your magazine.

Can you give some more information about the Chinese developing Beidou, Navigation System (COMPASS) for both civilian and military purpose? I believe china got the knowledge and expertise in military satellite navigation technology from Europe probably from the Europe’s “Galileo” systems. China plans to send 10 navigation satellites into the space in 2009 and 2010 and total 30 satellites into the space by 2015.

You have mentioned that India under GAGAN project will launch a regional constellation of at least seven GPS satellites for both civil and military applications:
1. How do you compare Indian "GAGAN" with the Chinese "Beidou" Navigation system?

2. ISRO plan GAGAN-SBAS project with the partnership of US Raytheon Company, will there be any condition clause attach with it as India's access to Russian “GLONASS' Py-codes is conditional.

3. Indian regional constellation of GPS navigation will have 7 satellites and will provide satellite-based navigation over the Indian airspace and areas in Southeast Asia but how many satellite constellations will India need for world –wide access.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

To give you an example of Prasun Sengupta's vivid imagination here is an extract from his article on Barak 8 published in FORCE.

"The Barak-2 LR-SAM, also known as Barak-8 within Israel, will make use of a novel nose-mounted dual guidance system: an active phased-array radar for guidance over the final 30km terminal phase of its flight; and a miniaturised, gimbal-mounted imaging infra-red seeker using an indium antimonide staring focal plane array operating in the 3 to 5 micron wavelength band.[ This is actually IAI Stunner's guidance] During the initial fly-out phase of flight, the Barak-2/LR-SAM’s seeker window will remain covered with a two-piece clamshell protection shroud. Metal bladders installed in the shroud will be inflated to eject the protective shroud before the combined seekers initiate target acquisition.[This is the mechanism of Rafael's Iron Dome inteseptor called Tamir]"

Barak 8 according to IAI website only uses an ARH seeker.
Bracket comments are inserted by me.


Dear PKS, can u please clarify this? I am taking your side on SA's blog

Anonymous said...

there is only actice radar seeker in barak-8.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Nava: Regretably no illustrations of the-launched Python-5 surface-to-air missile have been released to date for public consumption. But the co-development project was inked in late 2003 and it is meant for the ATV technology demonstrator. Unlike the DIEHL-built IDAS, It won't be guided by fibre-optic cables.

To Subroto: GAGAN is not the same of India's proposed regional constellation of GPS navigation satellites. The ‘Beidou’ regional GPS-based satellite navigation system's satellites are built to rubidium atomic frequency standard. With a space segment of five satellites in geostationary orbit and 30 non-geostationary orbit satellites, the ‘Beidou’ constellation will provide continuous real-time passive three-dimensional positioning and speed measurement, precise timing and user-position reporting. The satellites will be based on the proven DFH-3 bus that are already operational on board China’s existing telecommunications satellites, and will have a lifespan of eight years. The first five satellites were parked at their geostationary orbits by 2008. Navigation services open to commercial customers will provide users with positioning accuracy ro within 10 metres (33 feet), velocity accuracy within 0.2 metres per second and timing accuracy within 50 nanoseconds.
I'll upload the Beidou's information board posters tonight (they're from the 2008 Airshow China expo in Zhuhai).

To Anon@3:06AM: The Barak-8 MR-SAM has active radar for terminal homing, but the Barak-8ER LR-SAM has dual-mode guidance. It will indeed be an interesting 'imaginative' exercise on your part if you were to spend some quality-time discussing the convergences between the Stunner and Iron Dome with both IAI and RAFAEL.

subroto said...

To All,

First Indian ATV will be commissioned in the Indian Navy as INS Arihant, which translates as "destroyer of enemies", after extensive outfitting and sea trial.

Anonymous said...

"To Indranil: Kindly re-read my earlier MBT rankings. I have made no mention of any Type 99 MBT which you refer to. I had mentioned only the ZTZ-99G MBT.
"

Type-99G aka ZTZ-99G

Arun.

esoteric said...

Does everyone think India will actually announce the commissioning on July 26th. Why leak the news beforehand? The base in AP near Vizag is mentioned in many reprts I read in CFR.org..is it really a secret?

Anonymous said...

prasun, as a neutral observer, i am compelled to note here (after reading the back and forth in your comments section) that the model photo you have posted is very much the Akula-II. There is no question about it. These things are not a matter of opinion. I have had the photo checked out and compared, and being someone who knows, i dare say, a little about submarines, this is without doubt the Akula-II. Secondly, India's first nuclear sub platform (i understand it is being named INS Arihant) will not have a rear dorsal towed array sonar pod. the pod will only be part of the second and third boats. therefore, that rules out the accuracy of the model you have posted. it's ok to get it wrong sometimes, prasun. it takes a little credibility to admit your mistakes and move on. you have a great blog. just don't push something you "think" is correct, when others tell you otherwise.