In developing a comprehensive appreciation of the Chinese People’s Liberation Army’s (PLA) already formidable presence in the Tibet Autonomous Region (TAR) and the neighbouring western province of Xinjiang, one needs to take note of the fact that Xinjiang, with its domestic oil fields in the Tarin Basin and its role as a hub for oil and gas pipelines arriving from Pakistan and Central Asia, has now become China’s main source of non-seaborne hydrocarbons-based products. The TAR, on the other hand, possesses large amounts of zircon, chromium, rutile, magnesium and titanium that are needed by China’s heavy industries. Large amounts of cobalt and copper also lie astride the now operational 1,118km-long Qinghai-Tibet Railway. Consequently, the immensely strategic value of these regions and their resources has resulted in the increased deployment of the PLA’s rapid reaction forces (RRF, or kuaisu fanyin budui), and also better known as ‘Resolving Emergency Mobile Combat Forces, or REMCF) to these regions in order to prepare for any contingencies that might threaten its interests. To support the rapid deployment of its REMCFs in TAR and Xinjiang, the PLA in 2007 completed the construction of two major heli-bases and a massive ELINT/SIGINT station in Aksai Chin to conduct early-warning and border surveillance missions that could, potentially, substantially threaten Indian Army positions in Sub-sector North and Sub-sector West and the Saltoro Range. The two new heli-bases are the biggest in the world at 16,000 feet and could accommodate 300 medium-lift air-mobility helicopters, light armed aeroscouts and attack helicopters at a time. Simultaneously, the PLA Air Force (PLAAF) last made operational an air base near Xining in Western China. Last but not the least, the Golmund-Lhasa-Qinghai-Tibet Railway (QTR) network has now tripled the PLA’s offensive power against India, with reinforcements reaching from the Beijing and Shanghai military regions in 18 hours instead of the earlier 80 hours. Besides, the rail networks also now enable the REMCF formations from Gansu and Shaanxi provinces to be deployed by rail in less than 12 hours to carry out limited but intensive offensive campaigns against deployed Indian forces in Sikkim and Arunachal Pradesh.The PLA began raising its first REMCF formations in the late 1980s. A 100,000-man fully mechanised REMCF specialising in combined-arms land campaigns was established in 1992 and placed under the direct control of the Central Military Commission (CMC). This mission-oriented REMCF was given the tasks of border defence, dealing with internal armed conflict, maintaining public order, and conducting disaster relief missions. For creating this REMCF, each PLA Group Army Corps of every Military Region (MR) selected an Infantry Division to be the designated REMCF for dealing with emergency situations in every Military Region (MR). This was followed by a second tri-service 300,000-strong REMCF formation (also under the CMC’s command) in 1998, made up of the PLA Army’s 91 Division and 121 Division, the PLA Navy’s 5th Amphibious Landing Detachment, and the PLA Air Force’s (PLAAF) 15th Airborne Division. The 15th Airborne Division comprises three airborne brigades. The 43rd Brigade, stationed in Kaifeng, Henan Province, is attached to the Jinan MR. The 44th Brigade, stationed in Yinshan, Hubei Province, is attached to the Lanzhou MR. The 45th Brigade, stationed in Huangpi, Hubei Province, is also attached to the Lanzhou MR. The Division also includes elements of the PLAAF’s 13th Transport Division. The Division too is directly under the CMC’s control (and not under the PLA’s General Staff Department). Strategically, the airborne troops are considered to be a reserve force, yet in tactical terms they are deployed as an advance force. It can also be reconstituted as an air-mobile RRF.
The PLA Army has also since established a Regiment-level Army Special Force (ASF) in every MR as an RRF unit, directly under the MR HQ’s command. The principal officers of the ASF, including the commander, political commissar, and chief of staff, are full Colonels. Officers above the Platoon-level are University graduates and receive further education in the Army Command Academy. In every Group Army, a Battalion-level special reconnaissance task force has been set up under the Group Army HQ’s command. Officers and men of this ASF are selected from reconnaissance and technical units of every Group Army. The wash-out rate is about 50% after receiving further tests and training. In addition, every MR has established special training facilities for their ASF/RRF units. These facilities impart training on ‘five defences’, including means to defend against nuclear/biological/chemical attacks, electronic countermeasures, and employment of precision-guided weapon systems. The timeframe of each exercise for such RRF/ASF elements is three days and troops are given a two-day food ration. The exercise missions include occupying and defending strategic key points, sabotaging airfields, anti-air attack, anti-reconnaissance, and survival course training. Combined-arms tri-services RRF and REMCF exercises (conceptualised and directed by the PLA’s first combined-arms tactical training centre in the Nanjing MR) were first carried out in 1995 and 1996 in the Gobi desert, the Tibetan and Xinjiang highlands, and in the southwestern tropical forests to enhance the RRF’s and REMCF’s adaptive survival capabilities.
The ASF/RRF units currently deployed throughout the TAR specialise in the conduct of reconnaissance combat operations (RBD), which involves the extensive use of signals intelligence, helicopters (air-mobility, armed aeroscout and attack) and high-mobility reconnaissance teams to provide actionable intelligence for light mechanised infantry formations which are then able to serve as blocking forces to ambush and halt retreating hostile ground-based interdiction forces, as well as provide fire coordination for long-range field artillery and tactical air support. The operational environment in the TAR and Xinjiang regions—comprising the world’s largest mountain ranges and high desert plateaus—has required that lighter forces be deployed, since the terrain and the long borders are generally unsuited for operations to be undertaken by large heavily armoured formations. Consequently, the PLA Army has equipped its Brigade-sized REMCFs in Tibet and the 6th Independent Division in Xinjiang—the first fully mechanised infantry Division to be deployed at this height—with wheeled armured fighting vehicles and all-terrain logistics vehicles. These include the NORINCO-built WMZ-550 four-wheeled, WMZ-551B (Type 92A) six-wheeled and WMZ-525 eight-wheeled family of armoured personnel carriers (APC), armoured infantry fighting vehicles (AIFV) and tank destroyers, and the WMZ-551A (Type 92) and WMZ-501 Type 86 infantry fighting vehicle (IFV) and PLZ-95 combined gun/missile air defence system mounted on a tracked hull. These vehicles are organised along the lines of a cavalry battalion. In both regions, the AIFVs are equipped with one-man high elevation turrets that are mounted with 25mm and 30mm automatic cannons. Such turrets allow the AIFVs to engage targets located high in the mountains. In addition, the ability of the 25mm/30mm cannons to penetrate light armour gives it a measure of security if it were to face light tanks.
The structure of the 6th Independent Division follows the standard PLA triangular organisation, comprising three mechanised infantry or armoured Platoons to a Company, three Companies to a Battalion, three Battalions to a Brigade and three Brigades to a Division. The Division comprises three mechanised infantry Brigades, one MBT Brigade (equipped with Type 96G MBTs), one field artillery Brigade (equipped with SH-1 155mm/52-calibre motorised self-propelled guns, WS-2 and AR-2 MBRLs), one air defence Brigade (equipped with the PLZ-95, Yitian SHORADS and KS-1A M-SAMs), one helicopter wing, and a logistics Brigade. The Division HQ comprises a combat engineer Battalion, an electronic warfare Battalion, a chemical defence Battalion, the Company-size Division HQ Staff, an integral air defence unit and a quick-reaction force Company. There are a total of 351 Type 86 AIFVs in this Division, which are supported by an Artillery Brigade of 72 155mm/52-calibre PLZ-05 guns and a MBT Battalion of 99 Type 96Gs. Type 89 tracked armoured command vehicles are liberally provided throughout the Division down to the company-level to provide command-and-control capabilities. The Type 86 AIFV sports a one-man universal turret containing a 30mm chain gun. The turret also has greater depression and elevation to enable individual windows and mountainsides to be engaged. The Battalion’s support Company includes one mortar Company (armed with 10 W-99 82mm mortars mounted on 4 x 4 vehicles), an automatic grenade launcher (AGL) Platoon with two vehicles each equipped with two 35mm AGLs, one anti-tank Platoon of two vehicles sharing three anti-tank guided-missile systems (the HJ-9A mounted on ZFB-05 APCs). There are 18 ZFB-05s in each Brigade providing 72 anti-tank guided missile launchers in the Division. There is also an air defence Platoon of three PLZ-95s with four FN-6 VSHORADS missiles per vehicle for a total of twelve. The Division has 27 motorised air defence vehicles and has 108 VSHORADS launchers that come under the operational control of the air defence Brigade, which comprises one Battalion of 24 towed 57mm anti-aircraft guns and one Battalion of 18 towed twin 3omm ‘Giant Bow’ anti-aircraft guns. An air defence Platoon of six PLZ-95s and one Yitian launcher are attached to the field artillery Brigade. A new addition to the 6th Division is a helicopter wing with one squadron of six Harbin Z-9G attack helicopters and one transport squadron of six Mi-17V-5 air-mobility helicopters.
Operational logistics are provided assets that are attached to the REMCFs as required. The all-terrain vehicles and weapons (built by NORINCO, Yongkang ADBTEV Vehicle Co Ltd in Zhejiang, Chongqing Yonghui Technology Development Co Ltd, Chongqing Jinguan High-Technology Group, and Shaanxi Baoji Special Vehicles Manufacturing Co Ltd) are much lighter than those in other PLA Army mechanised units, reducing their logistical footprint and providing tactical mobility, allowing for more roads and bridges to be used during operations. In addition, a wide range of wheeled light specialist vehicles have been inducted into service. These vehicles can be armed with weapons that include the NDM-86 7.62mm sniper rifle, PF-98A 120mm LAW, PF-89A 80mm LAW, QJG-02 12.7mm HMG, Type 82 106mm RCL, Type 88 5.8mm sniper rifle, Type 89 12.7mm sniper rifle, and the Type 91 35mm grenade launcher.
For ultra-low-level air defence of installations like heli-bases, air bases and logistics bases, state-owned China North Industries Corp (NORINCO) has begun delivering two new systems to the PLA Army: the LD-2000 close-in weapon system (CIWS); and the Yitian VSHORADS. The LD-2000 is mounted on a locally developed cross-country 8 x 8 truck. To provide a more stable firing platform, four stabilisers are lowered to the ground. Mounted at the rear is the remote-controlled turret armed with a 30mm seven-barrel cannon. Two ammunition boxes each hold 500 rounds of ready-to-use ammunition. One magazine holds armour-piercing discarding-sabot and the other high-explosive rounds. The 30mm cannon has a cyclic rate of fire of 4,000 rounds/minute out to 3km, but airborne targets will be engaged between 1km and 1.5km. The power-operated mount is unmanned and laid onto the target by a gunner who is seated in a fully enclosed module to the rear of the cab. Mounted on the top of the 30mm gun mount is a wide-band tracking radar and an optronic fire-control system, which also incorporates a laser rangefinder. Target information comes from a wheeled command/control vehicle fitted with a CPMIEC-built TD-2000B surveillance radar, which controls between three and six LD 2000 firing units. Another version of the LD-2000 comes equipped with the gun plus six TY-90 VSHORADS missiles.
The Yitian VSHORADS is mounted on NORINCO’s WZ-551 series 6 x 6 APC. A turret, armed with four TY-90s located either side of the sensor package, is mounted on the upper part of the WZ-551’s chassis. The sensor package comprises an optronic system, above which is mounted a new 3-D radar that can be folded down into a horizontal position while travelling. The 3-D radar has a detection range of 18km and a tracking range of 10km. Targets can be tracked either in the optronic mode or in the radar mode, with the latter being especially useful when there is a threat of electronic countermeasures. Yitian also features an automatic target tracking and engagement capability and can engage targets with a maximum velocity of up to 400 metres/second, with a claimed reaction time of six to eight seconds. The TY-90 solid-propellant missile has a maximum effective range between 300 metres and 6km, with altitude coverage from 15 metres up to 4km. The fire-and-forget missile is transported and launched from a box-type container and has four fins at the rear and four control surfaces at the front. Once the missiles have been fired, new missiles are reloaded using a support vehicle. The WZ-551 chassis includes a nuclear/biological/chemical warfare protection system, and a central tyre pressure regulation system that allows the driver to adjust the tyre pressure to suite the terrain being crossed. A 12.7mm machine gun is mounted at the front right side of the vehicle for local defence, with a bank of three electrically operated smoke grenade launchers mounted either side of the turret. Optional equipment includes an identification friend-or-foe capability.
For airborne EW operations in support of limited war campaigns conducted by REMCFs, the PLAAF has deployed the Y-8XZ platform since April 2007. The aircraft features large fairings forward of the main landing gear compartments, as well as two large plate antennae on each side of the rear fuselage. Other features include twin-blade antennae on both sides of the vertical tailfin, a wire antenna underneath the rear fuselage, and a SATCOMS antenna on top of the real fuselage. The Y-8XZ can also be pressed into service for conducting psychological operations and has on board high-power broadcast equipment
The PLA’s Army Aviation Unit (AAU), raised in April 1986, is tasked with deploying armed aeroscout (Z-11), air-mobility (Mi-17V-5) and attack helicopters (ZW-9G) to support ground operations. The AAU is directly under General Staff Department (GSD) command, and has been seen in several combined exercises in Northern China (Huabei), TAR and Xinjiang performing reconnaissance, anti-armour attack, special forces insertion, electronic countermeasures operations, and command post relocation. For reconnaissance operations by night, the AAU has in its inventory several Z-9G helicopters equipped with imaging infra-red LORROS sensors using secure data links to provide near-real time fire-support observation and coordination in high-altitude terrain. To enter service in the near future will be the Zhisheng ZW-10A twin-engined light attack helicopter. It may be recalled that Pratt & Whitney Canada had sent 10 PT6C-67Cs engines to China in 2001 and 2002 under a Canadian government export license for use in the 6-tonne AMHU medium-lift helicopter that is currently under development by China National South Aviation Industry Ltd, Changhe Aircraft Industries Group (CAIG) and China Helicopter Research and Development Institute (CHRDI), both based in Jingdezhen, Jiangxi Province. It has now been confirmed that these engines have mysteriously ended up in the ZW-10A, whose maiden flight took place on April 29, 2003. China, however, claims that the two helicopters are being developed on a ‘common platform’ that share common rotors and transmissions. The tandem-seat ZW-10A is fitted with a fly-by-wire flight control system, twin glass cockpits, nose-mounted optronic turret, and a chin-mounted 20mm cannon. The electronic warfare suite, developed by CETC International, includes a radar warning receiver (RWR), laser warning receiver, infra-red jammer and chaff/flare dispensers. Twin stub wings provide four stores stations for external ordnance like the HJ-10A laser-guided missile and TY-90 laser-guided air combat missile.--Prasun K. Sengupta
49 comments:
how does the singapore kinetics howitzer compare with M777?
Prasun,
Thanks for answering my earlier questions.
Who are all the contenders for the IA motorized howitzers. Who is the best among the contenders and what is the number planning to be procured.
In one of your recent posts, you have mentioned that IA is looking for about 400 wheeled tank destroyers of 105 or 120mm. Please help me understand the difference between the Tanks and wheeled tank destroyers. Who are all are being considered and who is best in your opinion in the group.
Now IA is exercising with Strikers and my understanding from the recent reports is that similar armored vehicles are being considered for procurement by IA. Who are all the contenders and who is good among the group.
Please clarify me, if AL-41F is being considered for MKI upgrade?
Thanks a lot.
To Gaurav: To give a simple answer: the LW-155 from BAE Systems (M777 is its US designation, which does not apply to other users of the LW-155) is already operational with both the US and Canada and is combat-proven, whereas the Pegasus from Singapore's ST Kinetics has yet to secure any export orders. Therefore, the less riskier approach for the Indian Army would be to go for the LW-155.
To Divakar: The contenders are from Serbia, South Korea, France, South Africa, and Israel, but the best among them is the one that has already bagged export orders from as many as four customers: the Caesar from France's Nexter Systems. The requirement is for 810 units for the Indian Army.
MBTs are usually employed in the plains by armoured divisions or brigades and their principal targets are opposing MBTs. A wheeled tank destroyer, on the other hand, is mostly employed NOT for taking on MBTs on flat terrain, but rather as part of fast-moving brigade- or battalion-sized battle groups in flat or mountainous terrain for providing indirect and direct fire-support for friendly infantry by staging ambushes of hostile MBTs and other armoured vehicles, and destroying hostile bunkers and other hardened emplacements (housing field artillery howiters). The greatest advantage, however, of wheeled tank destroyers is their ability to be transported by aircraft like the IL-76MD and C-130J and be air-dropped as well. That way, such tank destroyers can be 'strategically' transported by air, and make use of their wheels (or tracks in case of tracked light tanks) for tactical mobility and manoeuvring in higher altitude areas of the type prevailing in eastern Ladakh, Sikkim and northern Arunachal Pradesh.
The Strykers per se are not being considered for procurement, only their tank destroyer version equipped with 105mm cannon (the same cannon is also being offered by General Dynamics Land Systems on the Austrian Ascod tracked vehicle). But the Indian Army is most interested in learning more about the operations of the Stryker-based US Army Brugade Combat Team and its concepts of manoeuvre warfare in a network-centric environment, and above all its bandwidth requirements (as they make extensive use of a wide range of UAVs networked with attack helicopters and close air support aircraft) for achieving swift concentration of forces through superior situational awareness (i.e. getting to know where the enemy is and deciding how best to engage and neutralise the enemy with superior firepower without the enemy even knowing what's happening until it is too late).
The AL-41F as yet has not been made available to India for any combat aircraft. It is only the uprated 117S variant of the AL-31FP that is on offer for both the Su-30MKI and the FGFA.
Nice detailed reporting Prasun! Scary... More and more such articles about the Chinese armed forces seem to indicate that their armed forces are like crouching tigers whereas our forces are like obese cats! Our only hedge against the Chinese in a future armed conflict is to have a 'first line of offense' comprising of irregular armed militias to get them entangled/bogged down in anti-insurgency operations.
Unfortunately, the only people whom we could've used for such operations -- the Tibetans, are more content selling socks' and sweaters in various Indian cities than trying to be useful lending us a hand against the Chinese.
To Anon@2:13AM: Many thanks. From my perspective, this is not so scary as:
1) The Indian Army being denied the opportunity to buy 155mm howitzers for the past 22 years!
2) The Indian Army being denied the opportunity to familiarise itself with the terrain of operations SINCE 1975 due to the prevailing Border Patrol Policy enacted by successive Indian govts that limit the Army's routine patrols only between 2km and 20km away from the LAC, thereby enabling China to usurp Indian territory in Arunachal Pradesh. To date, in at least four areas there, the Chinese have come in as deep as 20km and set up permanent border outposts!
3) 20 roads that were sanctioned for construction in Arunachal Pradesh way back in 2000 were 're-sanctioned' by the current UPA govt last year, but there's hardly been any progress in their construction.
4) The Govt of India's freezing of Operation Falcon in 1988, followed by its permanent scrapping in 1993.
5) The folly of converting the entire MacMohan Line into the LAC (previously only the borders along Sikkim and eastern Ladakh were demarcated as the LAC) in 1993.
6) The folly of entrusting border policing and surveillance to paramilitary forces (like ITBP and Assam Rifles and the SSB) and not allowing the Indian Army to patrol right up to the border outposts, thereby having a dysfunctional border management-cum-surveillance arrangement under which all routine interaction between the paramilitary forces and the Indian Army has to be routed via the MHA and MoD.
To me, all of the above points are far more scary than what the PLA is indulging in.
Prasun Sir, concept wise isn't the PLA's 'REMCF' similar to the Indian Army's 'Cold Start' doctrine?
Thanks a lot for the detailed reply.
Prasun,
What is the upgrade scheduled/path for MKI that IAF is considering. When the new 50 MKI’s purchased, will they be with the new proposed upgrades? Will they be strengthened to carry bramhos?
To Anon@5:58AM: No, the REMCF is a ground formation like the Integrated Battle Group. Cold Start denotes the doctrine of employment of ground forces only.
To Divakar: The additional new 50 + 40Su-30MKIs to be ordered in two batches in future will have the upgraded NO-11M Bars PESA featuring a new antenna capable of movement in azimuth and elevation, extended detection and tracking ranges, new ground moving target indication mode, and a SAR mode. Contrary to popular belief, the IAF requires no more than 18 Su-30MKIs to be modified for carrying the BrahMos.
Prasun, came across an interesting interview with Pakistani pilots in 1965. If you haven't already seen it, here's the link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XydshPJBarc
sit tight we are coming
To li hung: Who's 'we'? And going where?
Prasun ji.
Your comments to Li Hung is perfect.
Li Hung, what are you doing here in this blog. This is for the civilized people. Anyway, if you are coming, please come. We are waiting for you.
Anon@11:11AM: Relax yaar, he/she was probably the incidental prankster. Anyone with a semblance of knowledge on ground forces deployments will realize that my analysis above dealt with only deployment patterns and ORBATs pertaining to the plains and and not over the kind of mountainous terrain as prevalent throughout the Sino-Indian border.
:) I am just irritating him. Most of the chinese have some complex, credit goes to the "education" they undergo during their curriculum. This is visible especially among the Chinese who are in their 20s or early 30s. The old Chinese to some extent understand the scenario and what communists have done to them or to their parents.
Coming back to PLA, even the present Def Ministry of Govt of Taiwan (considered to be pro-Chinese) said Chinese Defense strength is far more than it needs to defend itself. So this is a clear message that present day Chinese military is a threat to other countries.
So why should India bend its knees? Why can't India join the Japan/Korea/US. Even though Singapore is pro-western, Singapore Defense Force is consists of more than 85% of people of Chinese origin. I was told that there is a strong feeling among some section of Chinese Singaporean that it should be aligned with China.
What do you say?
Prasun - very good and thought provoking article.
BTW - you saw Ajai Shukla's article on Astra of course.
IIRC, 44km was the low-altitude intercept range of the system wasn't it and not the range of the Mk.1 ?
Hi Prasun,
Do you think the first indigenous aircraft carrier will have EMALS? Admiral Sureesh mehta's been quoted saying that the Navy wants EMALS on its future carriers.
Can Ski jump carriers be fitted with emals in the future?
Hello from Pakistan. News about Pakistan Army acquiring this artillery system was reported in number of Indian blogs and news websites. I was wondering what was the source of this news since it was not reported in any Pakistani media and also how does it impact any future conflicts between the two countries...... hoping that would never happen !!
you cant even deal with pakis china is far ahead it will take thousand of years for india to develop something like china waste your money on so called indigenous programs
Syed's Photoxploration get the fuck out of this blog it is meant only for Hindustanis.
Hindustani,
let's not degrade this blog and discussion and keep
it professional, we have other forums for that. Let's
keep your hatered aside and hear what real
soldiers havd to say unlike arm chaif generals.
I am sure you won't say to my face if we worked with each other at some company.
To Li Hung:well if you are coming your b/f or g/f will need to know for their wanking technique is sure working.Sorry we don't have a tissue or a paper towel here in this blog...By the way Li hung are you remain well-hung?
To Syed: From what I gather there should be more Pakistanis like you in which case India and Pakistan could have worked in a partnership like they do in Australia and New Zealand instead of wasting money and skills in sectarian divisiveness.Prasun owns the blog and he is I am sure happy to accommodate various views be it Pakistani or Indian or even Chinese.No smart alecs like the pseudo-Hun Li whatever above though - ruins the blog's charm and informative nature...
To li hing: You fucking Hun... get the fuck out of this blog it is meant only for Indians and not for the commie scum like you.
@F: Whenever & wherever I encounter Pakistanis on the net, they keep arguing about how PAF has always had superiority over the IAF... my answer to them is always the same -- "Regardless of PAF's superiority the fact that we still have Kashmir, while you don't have East Pakistan shows that PAF's superiority was ultimately of no use to Pakistan." The same holds true today too.
Anonymous, agree with your points.
By the same token in WW2, the Luftwaffe mantained local air superiority over most sectors in the Eastern Front until the very end, but that didn't stop the Soviets from reaching Berlin.
Nonetheless, I found the clip to be very interesting. There is also one on youtube showing PAF 1965 guncams and one of the mass surrender at the Dhaka stadium in 1971.
To Anon@12:37PM: Almost all Singaporean Chinese are 4th generation citizens who have no links whatsoever with their roots in Mainland China but among te decision-makers of Singapore, there's no specific tilt towards the Mainland. In fact, as far as the Singapore Armed Forces go, if at all there's a tilt, then it is towards the US and Taiwan.
To sbm: You're right, it is not the maximum range at max cruise altitude. But even with the quoted 44km range the Astra could easily be modified to work as a vertically-launched SHORADS with 18km range. The potential exists.
To Anon@2:31PM: The first IAC won't have EMALS, but it will definitely be considered for the follow-on IACs as the existing STOBAR configuration has certain limitations. But with EMALS one can safely do away with the ski-ramp.
To Syed's Photoxploration: I had written about the SH-1's high-altitude and desert field trials way back in early 2007 and had also secured a copy of the field trials report done by the Pakistan Army. NORINCO learnt several lessons from these trials and the Pakistan Army wanted several improvements to be made to the SH-1, primarily in terms of ruggedisation. The SH-1 will definitely be acquired by the Pakistan Army in the near future in large numbers (more than 300) as it gives one a definite edge when it comes to artillery fire-assaults launched from mountainous terrain. And most importantly, it is air-transportable.
To Li Hing@4:55PM: If you have anything constructive to contribute then by all means do so, but this kind of xenophobic bravado you've expressed won't do anyone any good. Kindly grow up!
To Hindustani: My understanding of the origin of the term Hindustan is that it is derived from the Hindukush mountain range and denotes the landmass lying east of this mountain range. Logically, therefore, the entire combined and contiguous landmasses of Pakistan and India today constitute Hindustan. So guys, please let us not carve out territorial divides out of this combined geographical landmass here.
To Anon@2:59AM & Faris: The video clip was a typical example of the post-sortie adrenalin that flows within any fighter pilot, no exceptions. Consequently, any comment emanating from any pilot after successful recovery back to home-base will sound exactly as it did in that clip. No surprises there. But an objective analysis and impression of the real operational environment encountered during such sorties, and the results of the sorties, in all cases emerges only after the operational de-brief--conducted over several hours--is concluded. It is the conclusions of such debriefs that are far more important to take heed of, rather than initial first impressions.
Prasun,
In Eurofighter the Captor is now pitching an e-scan radar,is this will be offered in MMRCA .
ST has bought its Howitzers guns for testing in india before it was sanctioned , what is the current position of ST & MoD .
Prasun da,
Thanks for answering my query on AESA radars.
Prasun da,
Can the 117S turbofan have 6,000-hour technical service life?Until now no Russian engine has a technical life of even 2000 hrs.
Can the fully mature L-band AESA render narrowband stealth designs like the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter highly vulnerable to Su-30MK variants equipped with such AESA radars?Till now the Russians have not been able to develop the first generation AESA.
Prasun da,
The DRDO has agreed to the IAF's proposal to increase the ceiling of the PAD or the to be developed PD-1 & PD-2 TO 200 kms just like the THAAD & the SM-3 anti-missile systems.Do you think the DRDO will be able to do so in 4-5 years time.
What should be the speed of the interceptor missile to counter the JL-2 SLBMs?
Will the KALI-5000 system be effectively deployed as anti-missile system in the future?
Thank you.
To NJS: The Caesar AESA will definitely go on board the Eurofighter EF-2000 (retrofitted to existing EF-2000s including those being delivered to the Saudis) and yes it is on offer to India as well.
The ST Kinetics-built Pegasus has yet to undergo field trials in India, although it has already arrived in India.
To Anon@8:27AM: The existing total technical service life (TTSL) of the AL-31FP is 2,000 hours while the RD-33-3 and RD-33MK has a TTSL of 4,000 hours. The 117S turbofan will have a certified TTSL of 6,000 hours.
Regarding Russian AESA-based R & D efforts, while it is true that true multimode airborne radars have not yet incorporated AESA arrays, Russian ocean recce satellites have for years incorporated AESA arrays (albeit of larger dimensions) for keeping track of naval fleet movements while operating in the SAR mode. Based on what the likes of Tikhomirov NIIP has been displaying since MAKS 2007, it will be safe to assume that the AESA-based radars that will soon emerge from Russia will be as good as, if not better, than comparable Western AESA-based radars. Now, depending on operational reqmts, one can equip aircraft like the Su-30MKI or even the Tejas Mk2 M-MRCA with a nose-mounted X-band multimode radar, backed up by smaller AESA arrays in the wing root/wingtip/vertical tail that can be employed as CW microwave jammers for neutralising the threat posed by BVRAAMs.
I wouldn't expect to see Su-30MKIs being employed as AEW & C platforms as well, since the workloads of the aircrew will be too high. I would rather see a dedicated AEW & C being developed (the IL-214 airframe MTA will be just one such fine platform) under which this platform could be equipped with 'smart-skins' or conformal L-band and S-band AESA arrays, exactly like what's on board the G-550 CAEW & CS of IAI/ELTA Systems. To me, such an AEW & CS platform will be much more versatile than what the DRDO's CABS is trying to do with the EMB-145. Even the Rustom UAV can be modified to accommodate a fixed roof-mounted triangular AESA array or a combination of belly-mounted and side-mounted L-band and S-band AESA antennae to act as a long-endurance AEW platform, wt the command-and-control and battle management tasks being performed from a ground control station. That potential definitely exists.
And it is only when you network such AEW & CS with the AESA-equipped Su-30MKI that you get a comprehensive non-cooperative target recognition capability against F-35 JSF-type targets.
To Anon@8:42AM: To optimise the BMD system several challenges need to be overcome. What has been tested thus far is only a first-generation system for point defence. For area defence and even theatre defence a fully networked system with a large engagement footprint and a corresponding battle management system need to be developed. Secondly, interceptor missiles with greatly enhanced rates of acceleration and aerodynamically fine-tuned missile-bodies are reqd. A look at the shape and dimensions of the Arrow-3 and S-300V/V-2500 missile rounds is a good indicator of the kind of BMD capability the IAF desires. But all this will not be possible in the next five years due to budgetary constraints.
by the way indians been working on alot of indegenios programms for 25 years anything been completed yet and in service yet.you would say tejas mk1 etc but none in service
Ignore li hung
At least the Indians don't blatently copy foreign designs and later say its locally designed. Years ago, Oto Melara was puzzled when China approached them with an order for just 5 Model 56 105mm pack howitzers. A year later, a Chinese company was making a copy for the PLA and even offering it for export.
My dear Il Hung, why on earth should India even think of indigenising when India has since the dawn of civilisation believed that the world world is one borderless community? Don't you get it? That's precisely the reason why no Indian has ever built isolationist monuments like the Great wall of China, but built bridges of communication like the Grand Trunk Road, and there's no India-town anywhere in the world, as opposed to ghettos like Chinatown. And as long as the likes of Uncle Sam are willing to educate and teach Indian scientists dual-use nuclear physics, as long as the Canadians are willing to help India acquire fissile materials, and as long as the Israelis and Russians are given a free hand by the P-5 (China included) to co-develop new-generation weapon systems with India, why bother about indigenisation or reverse-engineering? Better to build an operational aircraft carrier straightaway rather than needlessly waste time and money fabricating lookalikes made of stone and concrete in Wuhan, don't you think?
To Faris: LoL!!!
at least you guys realized you cannot produce indeginously but bad part is after wasting alot of money and time,but then atleast that whats the point of indeginouzation.best way to learn
To Li Hung: It is interesting when you say "but bad part is after wasting alot of money and time", since about two years ago when I met a Senior Colonel from COSTIND he was all praise for (even envious about) the elaborate and lengthy debates and arguments about India's weapons development policies and doctrinal debates which, by his own admission, were far more enriching and intellectually stimulating than the system prevailig in China under which, once the Central Military Commission takes a decision, everyone else is expected to fall in line and not even think about debating or questioning the pros and cons of the decision.
Prasun, following a recent downturn with Malaysian/Indonesian relations over Ambalat and the Balinise dance issue, do you think that Malaysian defence planners have finally woken up to the fact that Indonesia poses a greater security challenge to Malaysia than any other country? Do you expect any changes to Malaysia's threat perception towards its larger neighbour? We spoke about this issue some years back.
As you're fully aware, the Malaysian government has bend over backwards all this years to mantain close ties with Indonesia. Until only recently, the 'Confrontation' was hardly ever mentioned in the official press and schoolbooks.
Also, are you aware of any talks being held with Sweden on an arms package intended for all 3 services of the MAF. This was reported in Asian Defence, Diplomacy. Like you, I stopped many years ago, taking the magazine seriously, but perhaps something is really brewing with Sweden?
Lastly, do you still hold the opinion that the Super Hornet is a 'dead duck' as far as Malaysian is concerned and its only a matter of when but not if the Gripen is ordered, perhaps in 2-3 years.
To Faris: I'm of the firm belief that no ASEAN member-state can even contemplate full-scale hostilities or even low-intensity wars of subversion against one another, simply because it will mean the death of ASEAN as an economic grouping and lead to severe economic destabilisation, both domestically and regionally. Therefore, any notion of a 'military' solution emerging to resolve 'cultural' problems can be safely ruled out. The same has happened between Thailand and Cambodia as well, and the recent bilateral spat over a religious issue calibrated was kept limited to maintainable thresholds with climbing the escalatory ladder to uncontrollable levels. Psychologically, Indonesia faces a self-confidence deficit in the aftermath of four decades of authoritian one-party rule and the territorial loss of East Timor and these in several ways are often exhibited without any credence as posing an existential threat to the territorial integrity of Indonesia. Therefore, expect a few more years of such self-inflicted fears to prevail within the Indonesian psyche before the Indonesian economy rebounds and the traditional cultural pride of the ruling Javanese elite in that country is restored to the Soeharto-era level.
Regarding Sweden, the only two significant deals being considered are that for the Saab 2000 AEW & C and the Gripen C/D. Am not aware of any other offerings. As you're aware AD & D is now editorially run by the same group that used to produce ASIAN MILITARY REVIEW, and historically this editorial team has been quite close to the Scandinavian defence industries, with advertorials being a quid pro quo. As for the Super Hornet, yes, it is a dead duck for the RMAF. But six additional Su-30MKMs will be ordered to fully equip No11 Sqn.
Prasun da,
That means the 117S turbofan will be a powerful powerplant comparable to the western engines in terms of performance parameters ,durability and technical service life with a high MTBO.Uptill now the Russian engines lacked behind their Western couterparts is the technical service life of their engines.
I hope someone in the MoD read your comments on what needed to be done in the future so that the faults can be rectified.Really some one needs to look into these articles.
We all like you really hope to see a dedicated AEW & C platform being developed on the IL-214 MTA airframe.
Thanks.
To Anon@5:45PM: Well, yes, comparable in terms of reliability. The 117S that will be available in 2014 will be as good, if not better. The widebodied IL-214 with its high-wing configuration will under all circumstances be a much better AEW & CS platform than the narrowbody EMB-145.
Prasun da,
Regarding BMD system you have written that for area defence and even theatre defence a fully networked system with a large engagement footprint is required.
Does it mean the DSP & RISAT group of polar and low-orbiting satellites, the regional group of satellites, very long range AEW & CS platform and 1500 km range LRTR like the sea based X-band radar of the US.
You have written earlier in answer to my query that India will have 4-5 regional group of satellites & 7 RISAT group of low-orbiting satellites by 2015-16.India will also recieve help from the European countries and even the US in building & launching it's own DSP group of satellites by then.So by 2015-16 the network system will be solved.
Regarding interceptor missiles with greatly enhanced rates of acceleration and aerodynamically fine-tuned missile-bodies i think the DRDO is going slowly but steadily towards developing Arrow-3 type of missile( with the help of the Israelis and the US).
Do you think by 2016-17 India will have a robust BMD system like the THAAD and the Aegis BMD systems?
Prasun, thanks for your insight with regards to Indonesia. You mentioned earlier about Singaporeans and their attitudes towards the 'old country'. Would you agree that it is Malaysia who has always enjoyed better relations with the PRC rather than Singapore? Not to forget to Thailand who has a special defence relationship with the PRC. On a different note, years ago I came across an article on how Pakistan was really annoyed in 1971 when Malaysia refused to grant refuge at Penang for 2 PN vessels that managed to flee East Pakistan before the surrender.
Out of curiosity, has the IAF in the past ever considered the Su-25 for use in low intensity secenarios in the northern regions? On paper would not the
Su-25 be more ideal for CAS and interdiction compared to Mig-27s?
I always felt that the SLAF would have been better off with Su-25s, rather than Kfirs and Mig-27s on account of the lower speed and better protection provided by the Su-25.
Some time back, you mentioned that the US Army doctrine for its Apaches to perform the the interdiction role beyond the edge of the battle area has been abandone following lessons learnt in Iraq. Whats is the IAFs doctrine with regards to using its gunships?
I sense jealousy?
Whats stopping India from making 155mm guns? India apparently developed space rockets indeginously, why cant make simple weapons in comparison to rockets.
China has fields or has fielded, three different 155mm SP guns (truck and track), 152 mm SP gun (track), two 122mm SP (track and truck).
To Anon@7:20PM
Does it mean the DSP & RISAT group of polar and low-orbiting satellites, the regional group of satellites, very long range AEW & CS platform and 1500km range LRTR?----YES
You have written earlier in answer to my query that India will have 4-5 regional group of satellites & 7 RISAT group of low-orbiting satellites by 2015-16.India will also recieve help from the European countries and even the US in building & launching it's own DSP group of satellites by then.So by 2015-16 the network system will be solved.---Only the spacxe-based BMD early-warning component.
Do you think by 2016-17 India will have a robust BMD system like the THAAD and the Aegis BMD systems?---Like the THAAD, yes, but not like the shipborne Aegis-based theatre BMD system.
To Faris: Yes, Cambodia, Malaysia and Thailand have always enjoyed better relations with the PRC rather than Singapore, and now Indonesia is following suit. That's why Japan and Vietnam have no choice but to adopt a pragmatic policy of strengthening defence cooperation relationships with the US.
The Su-25 is indeed a highly survivable aircraft but thank God the likes of India and Sri Lanka did not opt for it as these aircraft would have been grounded immediately after the USSR's breakup, since the Su-25's final assembly line ended up in Tbilisi! That's why throughout the 1990s only those countries requiring no more than Su-25s have ordered this aircraft. Sri Lanka opted for the MiG-27M as all its training and product support liabilities were picked up by India (and continue to do so as India has for long extended lines of credit to Colombo). In today's scenario involving full-scale hostilities, I very much doubt if the Su-25 or A-10A would survive the dense VSHORADS networks. These aircraft too are better off being equipped laser designator pods and laser-guided bombs, thereby staying out of harm's way.
The IAF too is against the provision of close air support as it used to be in the 1980s and 1990s. Today such missions are flown not directly overhead one's own troops or that of the enemy, but increasing use is being made of PGMs like laser-guided bombs. Even the MiG-27Ms are being equipped with Litening-2 LDPs, like the Jaguar IS and Mirage 2000s. But by the next five years such close air support sorties will be flown increasingly by UCAVs of the likes of the MQ-9 Reaper, BAE Systems' Mantis and the Heron TP. That's the direction things are headed for. The attack helicopters on the other hand, will be used along with MBTs as integrated hunter-killer battle groups, with tactical UAVs being used to fly ahead of the attack helicopters to locate ground-based VSHORADS and SHORADS air defence emplacements.
To, Anon 9:28:00 AM,
Single line answer - Corruption/ Non-Patriotic thinking.
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