Friday, October 10, 2008

Akash E-SHORADS Explained: Part 1










1) Photos 1 to 7 illustrate the various components of the Akash E-SHORADS system. The BSR on photo 4 is the L-band Indra-2 radar built by BEL, but the DRDO’s official brochure on the Akash clearly shows the BSR as being the Polish company Radwar’s N-22 S-band gapfiller radar. Photo 5 shows the Rohini 3-D CAR, which is a re-engineered version of the TRS-17 radar, developed by Poland's Przemyslowly Instytut Telekomunikacji SA. The tracked self-propelled launcher vehicle is no longer derived from the BMP-1 (photo 3), but the T-72M.
2) Akash E-SHORADS’ Group Deployment Configuration (photo 8).
3) Akash E-SHORADS’ ground support systems (photo 9).
4) Photo 10 shows DRDO’s TR Modules for AESA (L-band for Rajendra BLR & S-band for the indigenous AEW & C’s radar). While the original BLR was passive phased-array, the end-user’s revised ASQR/GSQR in late 2002 resulted in the DRDO developing the BLR-3, the definitive AESA variant of the BLR, which will be explained in detail in a forthcoming article. For those still naively claiming that the Rajendra BLR is PESA-based, standby for receiving the decisive knock-out punch anytime now.—
Prasun K. Sengupta

105 comments:

max said...

Thanks!

@Prasun

Is the "Battery Level Radar" the Rajendra Radar?

And atleast we can see some Tata trucks being used as the air storage / air compression vehicle.

max said...

@Prasun

And what's the status of this Akash system? Is it already in service with the Army / Air Force? And how does this match up to the Barak SAM that is in service with the Armed Forces? A quick comparison on Wikipedia showed Akash was superior in almost all aspects. So why did we buy Baraks? Can Akash also be used as a CIWS?

Anonymous said...

boss, as told before the trs-17 was not developed by the PIT. the trs family of radars was jointly developed by the lrde and pit. at the end of the development both countries went their own way. and the rohini is not a reenguneered version of the 3d car. it is an advanced derivative with all new antenna, new digital receiver and signal processor developed totally by lrde.

now next, the rajendra is a pesa. it uses a passive phased array driven by a travelling wave tube and has a receiver designed to operate with it. these are all separate parts of radar.

final photo is of lrde tx/rx modules for different projects. rajendra uses passive phase shifters (ferrite phase shfiters)

hope this helps

Anonymous said...

blr-3 is not also. blr-3 is army specific blr developed by lrde/bel/cvrde and ofb plus pvt partner for army mobility requiremnt. it uses a t-72 form factor instead of bmp-1 which was absis of original blr-1. blr-2 is more capable version of blr-1 which is used as basis of blr-3 (aoart from carriage vehicle).

Anonymous said...

@max,
air force has committed to 2 squadron of akash SAM system. by drdo it is called m-sam, not e-shorad. i dont know what that means. air force is also going to purchase more sq of imprved version. army has indictaed some modification to be made to akash, and after that is done it will be procured by them.

Anonymous said...

Prasun,
Why do you always have an issue with presenting the correct facts?. Please do some ground work before you write in some articles. I have been following your articles for more than a year. Please don't take it personally, take it as a constructive suggestion.Many people are reading your articles, just think what they think about you once they find out the correct figures and facts. Save the embrassment by doing proper data collection.

Anonymous said...

@ Prasun - reply to anyone of the comments man. If you're not communicating with your blog followers there is no need for your own blog you could have continued posting in Livefist.

Anonymous said...

to prasun

those t/r modules too big and defenitely not worthy of being fitted on indegenious AWACS of for fighter aircraft cuz there has to b lot more work to do for miniaturize these modules and make them lighter and smaller

but can b good for ground based radar

india is behind in VLSI(very large scale integration) designs and size of these t/r modules prove the
same

Anonymous said...

to Mr sengupta

can u upload some information
brochures about "SEA DRAGON" suite fitted on il38sd,it costed just
35million for fittment of advanced electronis,optronics and stuctural upgrade.

but not sure how much v paid to israelies for tu142 upgrade,these r some brochures for elta2022a and its video,elint and comint system that israel provided for TU142 upgrade if u can upload these will appretiate

elta2022a http://www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/files/4/34304.pdf

its movie
http://www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/files/0/32670.wmv
----------------------------------------------------
apy10 radar for P8I

http://www.raytheon.com/products/stellent/groups/sas/documents/asset/apy10_ds.pdf
--------------------------------------------------
ELINT-8382MPA - Airborne ESM/ELINT System for Maritime Patrol Aircraft

http://www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/files/9/33969.pdf
--------------------------------------------------------
EL/K-7000MT - Multi-Tasking Communications Jamming Systems

http://www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/files/9/27509.pdf

Anonymous said...

Sengupta sir usually replies in the wee hours of the moring - around 1 or 2am (singapore time)

rajnikanth said...

trishul isnt a SHORADS it is medium range SAM isn't it?


Anonymous said...

india is behind in VLSI(very large scale integration) designs and size of these t/r modules prove the

WRONG. india is right up there with best of the world developers in tx/rx module design and these modules are the same size as those on other fully distributed aesa designs in europe and usa and others. pls research before speaking crap. each of these modules has 8-4 tx/rx units within it. and yes they are for ground based radar.

Anonymous said...

to anon above

if ur comment is true then y v need AESA tech TOT for MRCA y not use indian tech for aesa radar on MRCA v can't even make a functionl muti mode radar let alone aesa
and
i have seen many telephone exchanges they r imported beacuse
they have better VLSI designs and their components r much smaller and fault free requires less energy than similar indian design components cuz they r much bigger due to inferior VLSI and requires more energy and this is civilian sector for technology not talking of military tech

Anonymous said...

if ur comment is true then y v need AESA tech TOT for MRCA y not use indian tech for aesa radar on MRCA v can't even make a functionl muti mode radar let alone aesa
and


ur getting confused and so there are a number of things ur mixing up. ground based radars r fundamentally different from fighter radars which nned stabilisation and ability to maintain acquisition despite going at supersonic speed themselves. ground based radars and ship ones have different design challenges and issues like hndling much higher power and have different specifications totally. aesa tot for mrca is just a learning prject to show us what is currently done it will give us a look into how to do it in small package. aesa is a tool, its not some mgic word which is same for everything unless u make a fighter radar u cant make aesa fighter radar. we have not made a single fighter radar but we have made many ground radars. u can adapt techniques for earlier radars to aesa, but if ur still developing those techniques for fighter radar how can u develop an aesa, what will it use as basis? we have also got air surveillance radar experience so aew project but we dont have fighter radar experience. it is our last remaining challenge so do u do understand now?

i have seen many telephone exchanges they r imported beacuse
they have better VLSI designs and their components r much smaller and fault free requires less energy than similar indian design components cuz they r much bigger due to inferior VLSI and requires more energy and this is civilian sector for technology not talking of military tech


civilian sector technlgy in india lags unfortunately behind military. which is reason why psus dominate manufacturing in mil coz using our taxpayer money they have got access to best tech. and there r some pvt manufacturers who r as good and even better than some psus. ur mixing up way 2 many concepts here too.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Max: The BLR is the Rajendra. The current status of the Akash programme is that it is still awaiting firm orders from both end-users—the Indian Army and the IAF. The revised ASQRs and GSQRs have yet to me fully complied with. Both end-users as far back as February 2005 had demanded that the missile’s engagement range be extended from 25km to 50km, and at best 40km. This was even admitted by the Secretary DRDO during a press conference on Day 1 of Aero India 2005. In addition, the end-users have demanded that the Akash demonstrates its ability to engage and intercept supersonic airborne targets at medium altitudes. This has not yet been done as the DRDO has been unable to lay its hands on such supersonic airborne targets like remote-controlled combat aircraft (like the QF-104 or QF-4). One would have expected the DRDO to develop ingenious solutions like converting a MiG-21FL/M as a remote-controlled target aircraft, but this has not yet been done for mysterious reasons. I’m not surprised at all since earlier the CABS/LRDE JV to develop the Tejas LCA’s MMR was using an Avro HS-748 as the flying testbed, when it was evident long ago that they should have used at the minimum a jetliner as the testbed to simulate the high-speeds and ECS demands of a combat aircraft. As for the Akash being an E-SHORADS or M-SAM, the contemporary SAMs like Pantsyr, SL-AMRAAM-ER and Spada 2000 have engagement ranges of up to 24km, while the latest Chinese E-SHORADS has a 35km-range. The contemporary M-SAMs have ranges between 40km and 70km. The Akash therefore cannot be classified as a M-SAM anymore. It could have been in the 1970s and 1980s, but not today.

To Anon@3:51AM: I’m willing to believe you 100% if only you could produce any official statement or brochures from either PIT or LRDE saying that the TRS-17 or even the TRS-19 were jointly developed. If not, then I will not be willing to place my bets on your statements. Regarding the Rajendra BLR being a PESA, again, kindly produce any brochure or poster saying that this radar is PESA-based. As you’ve seen the last photo I uploaded clearly shows the LRDE’s core competency in designing and fabricating L-band T/R modules for L-band radars. Now, apart from the Rajendra BLR, are there any other L-band radars being developed by the DRDO that have been acknowledged to exist? I’m pretty sure the DRDO did not fund such R & D ventures to just show off and display such T/R modules as relics in some DRDO museum. In any case, I will soon upload the photo of BLR-3 in which the nine clusters of AESA T/R modules are clearly visible. Also, can anyone, even the self-styled all-knowing wannabes throw some light on the BSR? No one seems to be willing to stick his/her neck out regarding my ‘proven’ claim that the BSR is a derivative of RADWAR’s N-22. Why this thunderous silence?

To Anon@4:06AM: If you just want to make your unsubstantiated opinions known then this is not the right blog for you to air them. If you want to be taken seriously then be specific and if you are unable to then I constructively advise you to refrain from making any such remarks again in this blog. And if you insist on your assertions on being accepted as the gospel truth then do step forward and identify yourself in order to prove your credibility. Otherwise, it’s just your word against mine.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Anon@3:51AM: The only other L-band radar that MUST be AESA-based is the LRTR aka EL/M-2080 Green Pine. And these radars too will require the same type of miniaturised T/R modules as those specified for the Rajendra BLR-3. Therefore, why should the BLR be PESA-based when the LRTR is AESA-based? Is it only a matter of cost? I ask this question because when the Akash project was unveilled it was officially claimed by DRDO that it will adopt the track-via-missile engagement technique (same as that for the MIM104 Patriot). Then, without any explanation, the guidance system morphed into the conventional radar-guided technique.

Anonymous said...

whats up next prasun?

Anonymous said...

to prsun

this is a problem with our armed forces when the s300 SAM with range 90km was available to us then y didn't they bought it and idiotically armed forces gives their GSQR every two to three years this is just rubbish and

its very easy to issue GSQR,

having akash is better than having nothing,thee is no problem with arjun tank or ex tank both uperior to T90

by the way which credible SAM systems IAF AND IA has in their possession NOTHING but some old SAM
and even those r not in enough numbers,and akash is much more net entric and does the task for which it is designed

how they can blame akash and it takes very long to acquire foreign SAMs

and y not akash on naval ships if navy can use shtil-1 and kashmir sam and barak-1 on ships there should b no problem with akash

this is just mere stupidity of armed forces and just want to ruin money in foreign systems

Prasun K Sengupta said...

Part 2 of the Akash E-SHORADS story will follow next.

Sh said...

Sir but if what you say is true how about this report http://www.hindu.com/2008/04/13/stories/2008041359371000.htm ??
And it was reported that DRDO has already completed development of the IGMDP -of which Akash is a part of. It doesn't make sense that DRDO is still developing the system to make it comply to armed force's requirement of <40km. If you notice other SAMs used by the army like SA-6, SA-8 and SA-13 (and even the BARAK-I) have ranges below 25km. So why not Akash?

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Anon@10:52AM: Things are not always what they seem. If you want to make a fair comparison of capabilities and achievements in defence R & D, then you should study the performances of DRDO's counterparts in countries like South Korea and Taiwan, like the Agency for Defense Development and the Chung Shan Institute for Science & Technology. You must also pay particular attention to the way they built up their defence-industrial infrastructure. They put emphasis on export-promotion in order to acquire leading-edge manufacturing technologies, whereas India put emphasis on import-substitution. There's a big difference between the two. One enables you to becomne a global player, whereas the other downgrades you into isolation and serving only a captive market.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Anon@11:01AM: If all R & D work on Akash was completed in 2004 then the entire system by now should have been mass-produced. The only reason it is not the case is there's still a lot more work to be done. While the Rohini 3-D CAR was recently handed over to the IAF, what's happening to the series-production of the Rajendra BLR-3 and the BSR? Why have no such orders been placed with BEL for their production?
The SA-6/Kvadrat has a 36km-range. The Akash is usually compared with the IAF's 25km-range S-125 Pechora in terms of engagement range. But the Army wants the Akash to replace the SA-6/Kvadrat and therefore the Akash must attain a range of at least 40km. The SA-8/OSA-AK and SA-13/Strella-10M you mention comes under the category of SLQRM (surface-launched quick-reaction missile) for which the RAFAEL-built SpyDer is the chosen replacement.

Anonymous said...

To Anon@3:51AM: I’m willing to believe you 100% if only you could produce any official statement or brochures from either PIT or LRDE saying that the TRS-17 or even the TRS-19 were jointly developed.

check "trneds in indian radar development" by dr cleetus lrde for more detail
PIT note in IEEE note on polish surveillance radar:
"family of radars closely developed with LRDE India"
also check with lrde, cv raman nagar dr''s c & sv for more details on original program

Regarding the Rajendra BLR being a PESA, again, kindly produce any brochure or poster saying that this radar is PESA-based.

drdo websitr has many detail on blr
anayways u can check any of papers submitted in yr 2005 by lrde @ international radar conference
the basic details r very straightforward - rajendra BLR is high power PESA with slewable array, driven by high powwr amplifier for multifunction search, acquisition and engagement.


As you’ve seen the last photo I uploaded clearly shows the LRDE’s core competency in designing and fabricating L-band T/R modules for L-band radars.


yes


Now, apart from the Rajendra BLR, are there any other L-band radars being developed by the DRDO that have been acknowledged to exist?


yes



I’m pretty sure the DRDO did not fund such R & D ventures to just show off and display such T/R modules as relics in some DRDO museum.


they are for actrual programs

In any case, I will soon upload the photo of BLR-3 in which the nine clusters of AESA T/R modules are clearly visible.

that is not blr-3.
pls check shiv aroor website on akash
u can see the blr-3 at trials

Also, can anyone, even the self-styled all-knowing wannabes throw some light on the BSR? No one seems to be willing to stick his/her neck out regarding my ‘proven’ claim that the BSR is a derivative of RADWAR’s N-22. Why this thunderous silence?

no silence it is a well known fact
indra 2 is a 2-3 vehicle system
radwar n-22 is compact proven platform on tracked platform for long range 2d surveillance
it is a good gapfiller
radwar was chosen to provide 2d radar in 90's
2d is good sense coz it needs to provide cueing direction for blr and is not so expensieve as 3d radar
why waste time on taking indra2 pc and making it on new trazcked platform
n-22 is not so critical technolgy also
drdo focus is on modern 3 d/2d radars for current requirement of forces

reagrds

Prasun K Sengupta said...

Here's a teaser. Can anyone identify the imported gas turbine engine-based APU used by the Akash's ASPL, BLR-3 & BSR? I'll give you one clue: it is also the APU for the Arjun Mk1 MBT.

Anonymous said...

To Anon@11:01AM: If all R & D work on Akash was completed in 2004 then the entire system by now should have been mass-produced.

basic system was proven
but actual production begings only after user clears trials
these cleared recently
all trials were successful
mobility, radar and engagement with missile

The only reason it is not the case is there's still a lot more work to be done.

akash has cleared for production
2sq for AF (3sq SpyDer f.e. so u can see this is in line with iaf procurement practise) more sq of mk-2 version after that

While the Rohini 3-D CAR was recently handed over to the IAF, what's happening to the series-production of the Rajendra BLR-3 and the BSR? Why have no such orders been placed with BEL for their production?

2 akash squadron is 4 rajendra blr. thse will be blr-2 version
blr-3 is for army
also many wlr are waiting for production after user trials
so pesa line wi;ll be v busy at bel

The SA-6/Kvadrat has a 36km-range. The Akash is usually compared with the IAF's 25km-range S-125 Pechora in terms of engagement range. But the Army wants the Akash to replace the SA-6/Kvadrat and therefore the Akash must attain a range of at least 40km.

slant range is misleading
pls look at propuslion profile
akash is fully powered thru 25 km giving it much better capabiltiy against targets
mk2 version of akash will be eveb better

thank u

Anonymous said...

To Anon@3:51AM: The only other L-band radar that MUST be AESA-based is the LRTR aka EL/M-2080 Green Pine. And these radars too will require the same type of miniaturised T/R modules as those specified for the Rajendra BLR-3. Therefore, why should the BLR be PESA-based when the LRTR is AESA-based? Is it only a matter of cost? I ask this question because when the Akash project was unveilled it was officially claimed by DRDO that it will adopt the track-via-missile engagement technique (same as that for the MIM104 Patriot). Then, without any explanation, the guidance system morphed into the conventional radar-guided technique.

pls understand the basis
aesa systems l band system is v bulky and not suitbale for high mobility fcr

this is why most fcr for exsting sam systems r pesa based coz u have optimum combination of cost, form factor and deployment

so making a high cost aesa system for akash is not good enuff coz u already have v good esa with long range and gating for engaging target

now for bm defense u need to look hundreds of km away so u are creating large zones with centerpiece as powerful aesa
u dont need to put these on tank and truck and drive them around

so u can afford the cost, size and ur willing to compromise coz u need very long range

u can do this with pesa too

its just that india had chance to jump a level and used aesa

russian sam all use pesa
even s-400 they have more experience in pesa and prefer to use it for their needs
but problem is u need dedicated pesa in large number because pesa has limitation in sector dwell, multimode ops

an aesa system is more flexible

Anonymous said...

"LRTR aka EL/M-2080 Green Pine"

btw LRTR is not Green Pine. it uses GreenPine lesson but is far more capable system with indian input
it is good example of what india can bring to table of even worldclass develper

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Anon@11:37AM: Many thanks for your clarifications on the TRS-17/Rohini & N-22. It proves my earlier remark at LIVEFIST, especially against the blogger claiming to be from LRDE who claimed that the Rohini had no link whatsoever with the TRS-17 and it was 100% re-engineered and redesigned. Regarding the BLR-3 being PESA- or AESA-based, I'm going by the Akash brochure handed over to me in CD-R format in April this year. It only says that the radar is of the phased-array type. I received photos of the BLR-3 and Akash test-firings from truck-mounted launcher and from T-72M-based launcher directly from Dr Panyam last January.

To Anon@11:41AM: By successful user-trials being cleared are you referring to the version for the IAF or Army or both? I'm not talking about slant range, but engagement range of the Akash Mk1, which is 25km. I'm sure the Mk2 version will be able to attain 50km+ (about 57.5km is the target, I'm told). Many thanks indeed for your clarifications.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Anons@11:53AM & 11:55AM: many thanks for the heads-up.

Anonymous said...

http://bp1.blogger.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/SBgV_z5EAjI/AAAAAAAAB5g/Ku3AAVRVraE/s1600-h/579U0185-747615.JPG

in this u cn see BLR3 and blr2

Anonymous said...

To Anon@11:37AM: Many thanks for your clarifications on the TRS-17/Rohini & N-22. It proves my earlier remark at LIVEFIST, especially against the blogger claiming to be from LRDE who claimed that the Rohini had no link whatsoever with the TRS-17 and it was 100% re-engineered and redesigned

rohini is completely new

pls try to understand how this goes

originl trs radars were developed by lrde and pit

but common tech

rest each did on own

so each is actually different

trs is not 3d car and 3d car is not trs

now rohini is lrde own design since what they did was take out original jntly developed systm and replace with better tech developed during period with lrde

same with revathi

Regarding the BLR-3 being PESA- or AESA-based, I'm going by the Akash brochure handed over to me in CD-R format in April this year. It only says that the radar is of the phased-array type.

yes it is correct that it is phased array, passive phased array

u can see the pic from other blog right above

To Anon@11:41AM: By successful user-trials being cleared are you referring to the version for the IAF or Army or both? I'm not talking about slant range, but engagement range of the Akash Mk1, which is 25km.

engagemnt range is chosen so that it comes at best parameter of akash ie where it has all the way propulsion of 25km but it is upto user to engage as they want depeding on tac sitation

iaf user trials r cleared
army user trls will be separate

Anonymous said...

anon above,

you seem pretty well versed, i m no match for you. just 2 humble questions: what does a squadron comprise of; and what vehicle is tha radar @ http://bp1.blogger.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/SBgV_z5EAjI/AAAAAAAAB5g/Ku3AAVRVraE/s1600-h/579U0185-747615.JPG mounted on? doesnt look like a BMP-2

Anonymous said...

whens p2 coming? 2022?

Anonymous said...

Prasun wrote :- "To Anon@4:06AM: If you just want to make your unsubstantiated opinions known then this is not the right blog for you to air them. If you want to be taken seriously then be specific and if you are unable to then I constructively advise you to refrain from making any such remarks again in this blog. And if you insist on your assertions on being accepted as the gospel truth then do step forward and identify yourself in order to prove your credibility. Otherwise, it’s just your word against mine."

I didn't want and expect you to accept my word as the "Gospel" for sure. I'm following all your articles and I find lot of copy and paste work. You are a professional writer ,you are the one who's going to tell the facts to the common people. What ever you write is read by lot of people.. I think Shiv and Ajai are also your buddies, I always find their articles with good ground work and very much informative.In other words no one will hesistate to refer their work as their literature. If I have afended you -excuse me!!.I definitely don't have to reveal my identiy since you are well versed with the techniques to track some user of your blog.Instead of you shouting at your blog readers better do a bit reasearch before you post an article. I definitely don't want to affend and I want to read more good articles from you. I think to keep a "period" on this conversation for the day.

Anonymous said...

to prasun

anything about il38sd upgrade how sea dragon works

RAJ said...

How the Akash-2 range is going to be increased, simple evolutionary improvement or some drastic changes?

RAJ said...

Re Prasun

This blog is very good step for bringing more info in public domain.

I think you are the ONLY journo in Indian defence scene reporting with "natural Interest" in hardware reporting.

I have read your recent articles in FORCE, & I think you have taken a right step in seperating your guesses from actual news reports (by mentioning it to be so.

Pls try to less hostile of criticl view of your articles, questioning your interpretation of facts is not necessarily a personal attack.

Also giving "an acknowledgement" sometimes creates long time friends. Note that is whole of your needless fight with BR&ACIG was about.

ALL in all a very very super excellent effort.

jar said...

@raj,

to increase the range they will create a new launcher that incorporates a catapult system that will catapult the missile ~20km far, then the motors will start (after the 20kms) and take it another 25km. bingo. 45km. Currently the catapult is only able to propel it to 16km far. Their target is ~20km. Please ask Sengupta for an update. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

SHORADS means SHORt And Dumb Sengupta

Anonymous said...

RAJ, why / how did SENGUPTA fight with BR / ACIG?

tq

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

you seem pretty well versed, i m no match for you. just 2 humble questions: what does a squadron comprise of; and what vehicle is tha radar @ http://bp1.blogger.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/SBgV_z5EAjI/AAAAAAAAB5g/Ku3AAVRVraE/s1600-h/579U0185-747615.JPG mounted on? doesnt look like a BMP-2

1 sq wll be 2 flights of akash
one flight= 1 blr + 4 launchers + bcp
2 flights of akash make 1 sq

so af has order 4 flight of akash

this is af terms same in pechora also

in pic from bloggr u can see 2 pics of akash blr

first is blr3 on t-72 platform second is blr-2 on bmp platfrm

regards

Anonymous said...

1 sq will also have 1 group cmmnd post and 3d car or af can replace it with new rohini

af plans for many rohini this is very big success for drdo and their design efforts

Anonymous said...


this is a problem with our armed forces when the s300 SAM with range 90km was available to us then y didn't they bought it and idiotically armed forces gives their GSQR every two to three years this is just rubbish and


s-300 is not only vv expensive but its performnce was not so good in india conditions
@truals in russia they didnt impress they used best possible conditions for medium range performance
today s-300 pmu2 and v are v capable systems but we can also make our own system with jv and dont need 2 depend on import units
evey small prblem and we have to go to develpor for clearing tests

Anonymous said...

To Anon@10:52AM: Things are not always what they seem. If you want to make a fair comparison of capabilities and achievements in defence R & D, then you should study the performances of DRDO's counterparts in countries like South Korea and Taiwan, like the Agency for Defense Development and the Chung Shan Institute for Science & Technology. You must also pay particular attention to the way they built up their defence-industrial infrastructure. They put emphasis on export-promotion in order to acquire leading-edge manufacturing technologies, whereas India put emphasis on import-substitution. There's a big difference between the two. One enables you to becomne a global player, whereas the other downgrades you into isolation and serving only a captive market.

taiwan system r good byt they are v reliant on us system for tecghnology
indigenous development si not high prioirity for them

korea is different case
v effective public prvate model but we are ahead of them in many technologies and area where theyr dependent on foreign partner with local company

but in land system they r very capable and ahead of us
v good systems thy have

Anonymous said...

by lnd system i mean artillery guns f.e.
in electonics india cn match korea or better

Anonymous said...

anon above,

Thanx a bunch for answering my questions!!

I was meaning the frontmost vehicle that takes up about half te picture. That does not look like a T72 body to me.

Moreover the radar looks so shoddy like some patchwork with paper, cardboard and planks. After coming this far dont they have technology or ideas to cover it with a smooth fibreglass coating?

Anonymous said...

SO so So when is part 2 coming up? i think u r mixing too much with ajai shukla who took a whole month to publish those helicopter stuff.

trisha said...

in electronics india can match Korea?

Bro, Korea is the largest manufacturer of semiconductors in the world. I doubt we can even make a plasma tv. most of their battletanks and artilery are home made unlike us importing t90s and bmp2.

Any news about the BHIM ARTILLERY anyone?

trisha said...

if u dunno what i m saying see vehicles like K200 (developed indegenously in 5 years) and K9 howitzer. thats d way we shd be heading

Anonymous said...

Bro, Korea is the largest manufacturer of semiconductors in the world. I doubt we can even make a plasma tv. most of their battletanks and artilery are home made unlike us importing t90s and bmp2.

point is not in making semicodnuctor but making large scale integrated design using commercial technology and own specific technology

it is here we r equal to nd better tjan south korea

pls see radar other items in service made by india china vs southkorea

korea is very muich dependent on foreign company like thales

they r also behind us in missile technolgoy

south korea like to purchase tech and develp variant

this is very rpid improvement system but it limits own knowlegde and understanding

but they r not to be underestimated

Anonymous said...

Thanx a bunch for answering my questions!!

I was meaning the frontmost vehicle that takes up about half te picture. That does not look like a T72 body to me.


it is t-72 basis
pls look at roadwheels
the entire radar is now on t-72


Moreover the radar looks so shoddy like some patchwork with paper, cardboard and planks. After coming this far dont they have technology or ideas to cover it with a smooth fibreglass coating?

it looks like that coz it is gone through very harsh trial in desert

pls look at any system and see what happens
the system was directly taken after trial for fire control for akash test

it is patchwork coz every system is modular and rite now it is kept so tht it can be quickly replaced and puilled out by scientist for trial verification

pls look at it from user design pov not just look
u can see all critical element are easy accessible

in this system is modular it can be modified using module of tech

f.e. transmitter system
processing system

radar is also similar

its phase array is only covered with thin protection from element and after rough handling it is only natural it will come off

production unit will "look better" but look is very minor part of equation

after 1 mnth in user environ everything is at same level

ruggedization is most important since sand is everywhere and this has been achieved in blr

Anonymous said...

most of their battletanks and artilery are home made unlike us importing t90s and bmp2.


whuch is why i said

"but in land system they r very capable and ahead of us
v good systems thy have"

unfortunate it is that in land system india has been not able to levearage existing resorces properly

Anonymous said...

to prasun

here is the pics new cockpit and moving map display in su34 which has recently been incorporated in su34 and it is similar to typhoon moving map display just type

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Fullback.html#mozTocId867743

Anonymous said...

no complain about akaash cuz its better than what iaf has now and
if navy can use shtil-1 and kashmir SAMs so nothing is wrong with akash

Anonymous said...

to trisha

if u dunno what i m saying see vehicles like K200 (developed indegenously in 5 years) and K9 howitzer. thats d way we shd be heading
--------------------------------------------
its because s korean armed forces respect the work of their scientists not like ours even if systems prove themselves a new GSQR comes in every two to three years and that spoils everything ,comparitive trails called off y,and by the way arjun and ex tank r none the less inferior to T90 or any other tank,

many systems in new s.korean r foreign produced like new tank has
american engine

v r not making any progress on indegenioous design of howitzer and no info on ABHAY IFV

it's just the mind set of armed forces is idiotic thats all

Anonymous said...

prasunnnnnnnnnnnn

next update !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

its ok 2 be wrong sumtimes but we are waiting for next update at bloggggggggggg!!

whole 2-3 days without update!!

Prasun K Sengupta said...

Relaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx!!!!!!!!!! My last update was only 24 hours ago!!!!!!! Wait for Part 2 of the Akash E-SHORADS. Still awaiting response from RM A K Antony's office as to when he would officially announce in Parliament that the Akash has been ordered for either the Indian Army or IAF. That's because no one from the MoD has officially announced that the Akash system has been committed to bulk production and unless that happens, no one will believe whatever others may have to say about the Akash's production status. Patienceeeeeeeee.

trisha said...

to Anon 8.42am

As I said the vehicles were developed in 5 years so there's no space for changes in GSQR. In our case we r taking 2 and 3 decades. Of course you don't expect army to induct something they ordered 2 and 3 decades ago! I know Arjun is not inferior to T-90. It is superior in many aspects. But what you gotta see is whether was the Arjun available to the army when it was really needed. During the Kargil war there were fears of a full-force Pakistani intrusion in North-Western India. At that time Arjun was no where to be seen. Leter in 2001/2002 standoff India was facing superior T80 tanks. Again Arjun was no where to be seen. After the standoff the army confirmed orders for the T90s to rival the T80s which was causing the land based balance to lean in favour of Pakistan. When the preliminary contract's been signed DRDO says: "Arjun's ready"! Are they being fair? Of course I 100% want the army inducting Arjuns in favour of T90s but we have to recognise that DRDO made its fair share of blunders that has caused this whole situation. It's not just the Army to blame but also DRDO. And undeinably the army Babus is capitalising on these blunders to enrich themselves by making foreign purchases. (yea, we know how). So at the end who bears the brunt? We. Indians. Mother India.

About American engines, what engine and transmission does Arjun use? indegenous? naah. A MTU unit from Germany that had to be fine tuned by German technicians when it failed summer trials. And for your info the K200 uses a Daewoo unit. They gotta vehicle and engine ready in 5 years. We are struggling to get a vehicle alone in 30 years. About engines, we have our fair share (at least 2) engine makers which are world class like Ashok-Leyland and Tata-Cummins (that are capable of developing a tank engine) but they don't seem to be in the military sphere, like how Daewoo and Samsung are present in South Korea. In fact Tata owns Daewoo Commercial Vehicles and some engine technology can be transferred if Tata was given a chance.

good day!

trisha said...

To add on we Indians are very capable people and I can bet we can be at least 100% more self sufficient than we are today in defence systems if the private sector is given the red carpet into the defense sphere with adequate government and end-user support. For example see how India today is making world class motor bikes like TVS Apache, TVS Flame and Bajaj Pulsar that is exported to right from South East Asia to South America. Even the Chinese have copied Pulsar design. And for your info, we have come to such a stage in a mere 10 years. 10 years ago Bajaj was selling Bajaj Chetak as its primary product. TVS was license building flimsy Suzuki bikes. In a mere 10 years (that is after market was opened up) both companies are forging ahead and dominating the world with their own effort.

Same goes with Tata and Mahindra. Both companies only started making their own cars in around 10 years ago and they have made significant progress. Mahindra today owns several design facilities and engineering houses abroad (and also Kinetic motors). Tata, needless to say owns 2 British auto jewels amongst its heap of companies.

Our grandfathers who used to travel on Ambis and Padminis (thanks to Nehruvian policy) would never have dreamt of this.

Same progress is being seen in the IT sector, Wind power, Biotechnology, Pharma... just to name a few

This same kind of progress is iminent in the defense sphere, but only if the concerned parties make the right move. I see it going in that way, but too slowly. India is starved of far sighted leaders. One man who I (IMHO) feel can somewhat make better progress is Mr. Narendra Modi. The rest are fools and Morons.

Sorry Sengupta for straying from the topic.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Raj@11:43PM: Your compliments and well-wishes are deeply appreciated.

To Trisha@9:57AM: You may be interested in knowing that way back in 1973 France had officially offered to co-develop with the DRDO the UniDiesel 1,500hp diesel engine, but the DRDO arrogantly ruled out such joint R & D offers. By 2001 the DRDO was knocking at the doors of GIAT Industries (now Nexter Systems) for consultancy-based help in redesigning the Arjun Mk2's turret. In addition, in the early 1980s, GE had proposed to the DRDO a project to co-develop a 1,500hp gas turbine (derived from the powerplant for the M-1 Abrams) at around the same time the F404 was selected to power the LCA TDs and prototypes. This offer too was not taken up, again for strange reasons. I say strange because if the ADA at that time had no qualms about US-origin technology-denial/embargoes, then CVRDE too should have followed suit to develop the Arjun Mk1's powerplant. Lastly, the Arjun Mk1's original hydropneumatic suspensions were acquired off-the-shelf from the US' Textron Systems. By 1993 they were reverse-engineered (a clear IPR violation) by DRDO, but Kirloskar Pneumatic took another 10 years to make sense of the DRDO's reverse-engineering data and mass-produce such suspensions of acceptable standard.

trisha said...

To Sengupta

Is Anthony (asshole) office gonna specifically let you know when the announcement is gonna be made?

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Trisha@10:18AM: regertably you're right. There are very, very, very leaders of national stature that are gifted with the power of STRATEGIC VISIONING.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Trisha@10:22AM: I already know what's the answer going to be, thanks to the DRDO officials I had mentioned earlier in my comments. But in case the RM's office says that the MoD is still in the process of drafting an answer to be tabled in Parliament in future, then we all will know what exactly he's likely to say. In any case, the much-touted firing trials of the Akash were just that: trials. Not user-trials, nor acceptance-trials. The most critical aspect of the trials was the BLR-3 variant of Rajendra. But the type of aerial target (Lakshya) selected for interception was NOT what the end-users had in mind. Hence, the more realistic Nirbhay PTA is now being developed, which will enable a more accurate simulation of a hostile airborne target's (be it aircraft or cruise missile) flight profile. We can't blame the armed forces for moving the goalposts this time as the very nature of the threats has changed since 2002 and consequently what's required to day are air defence systems to combat ground-launched and air-launched cruise missiles. The Akash thus has to evolve further, no doubt about that.

trisha said...

to Prasun

Thanks for the info.

You see DRDO had 2 opportunities at their doorstep but failed to open the door. Now they are conveniently blaming Army and also India itself for conducting Shakti-2 tests that lead to embargoes that further pushed back schedules. I know the army itself is not giving proper reasoning for declining Arjun (as you know why, because of some Ruble notes and Sharapova figures) but for DRDO to solely blame the army is making a mockery out of the situation. They should accept their faults and try to make some progress. Right now both are too thick headed. Both don't wanna accept their faults and cast their egos aside for the good of all. Constantly blaming one another like some childs play.

On Kirloskar it clearly shows lack of competence. 10 years to properly manufacture reverse engineered pneumatic systems is really overboard. Chinese conveniently reverse engineered fighter planes and manufactured it with little sweat. And it's not that Indians are so stupid as it may seem. Its just the lack of drive. Reason: Kirloskar knows well that nobody else will we appointed the task of manufacturing those stuff. So just do it at their grandfather's pace and convenience.

Rather, competitive bids should be sent out to several companies. e.g.

Time limit = 1 year. each month delay, pay US$10,000 + risk contract being withdrawn and company blacklisted.

Company that agrees to the terms gets the contract to manufacture for the entire defence establishment and preference in future contracts. I can then bet it'll be ready in 6 months, top quality.

Anonymous said...

@prasun,

so when is 'future' ??? nex month?? n is it only after it is read out in parliament u r gonna do your nex story? ie part 2 on akash? huh?

trisha said...

to Prasun

"I already know what's the answer going to be, thanks to the DRDO officials"


Willing to share what you know?

Anonymous said...

In any case, the much-touted firing trials of the Akash were just that: trials. Not user-trials, nor acceptance-trials.

prasun these were user trials. after these trials, iaf committed to ordering 2 sq of akash, but of courswe wanted some renegotiation on price. usual stuff which is common. user acceptance trials will happen if iaf wants them for first batch lrip akash. but order for 2 sq is cleared by mod. also in trials blr repeatedly locked on to high speed target before this yr itself. supersonic intercept is not the problem here. army user trials have not occurred will problyu occur nxt year.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Trisha@10:50AM: In about 3 hours will upload Part 2 with photos, and that will be followed tomorrow by a related story on India's next-generation air defence scenario (for both the Army & Air Force) that will include data on what exactly has Israel given India since 1998, is giving and will give in terms of AESA-related technologies and for what applications and for which threat scenarios.

Anonymous said...

By 1993 they were reverse-engineered (a clear IPR violation) by DRDO, but Kirloskar Pneumatic took another 10 years to make sense of the DRDO's reverse-engineering data and mass-produce such suspensions of acceptable standard.

sorry this is wtong again. us hydro suspension were utter flop in trials and leaked. after this decision was made by both user and cvrde to proceed with local development of system (this was kept as fallback coz of time challenge) and kirloskar, dynama and 3 other pblic/pvt partners were involved in making system suitably rugged. as u shud know in 2000 trials it was totally proven that hydro suspension was of correct design and cvrde was given go ahead to manufacture tank.

Anonymous said...

Hence, the more realistic Nirbhay PTA is now being developed, which will enable a more accurate simulation of a hostile airborne target's (be it aircraft or cruise missile) flight profile.

nrbhay is asl project for cm not pta. for pta we have many off the shelf option frpm abroad which have been demonstrted to india and choice made.

Anonymous said...

By 2001 the DRDO was knocking at the doors of GIAT Industries (now Nexter Systems) for consultancy-based help in redesigning the Arjun Mk2's turret. In addition, in the early 1980s, GE had proposed to the DRDO a project to co-develop a 1,500hp gas turbine (derived from the powerplant for the M-1 Abrams) at around the same time the F404 was selected to power the LCA TDs and prototypes. This offer too was not taken up, again for strange

time change prasun. its alwaysa case that sa to rm can only do what foreign exchange allow him to do. in old days with strong leadership exception were made. even today it is the case. but if gheneral economy is doing badly u cannot go and ask for money for working abroad it is always the case with everything

Anonymous said...

On Kirloskar it clearly shows lack of competence. 10 years to properly manufacture reverse engineered pneumatic systems is really overboard. Chinese conveniently reverse engineered fighter planes and manufactured it with little sweat. And it's not that Indians are so stupid as it may seem. Its just the lack of drive. Reason: Kirloskar knows well that nobody else will we appointed the task of manufacturing those stuff. So just do it at their grandfather's pace and convenience.

kirloskar is not so bad
they have been involved in indian defence when most company were not doing so coz it doesnt give much money
pls be realistic
no reverse engineering was involved
if u need contact @ cvrde, chennai corp office for details, they will help
biggest issue for hydro suspension is leaks if pressure is not maintained entire tank "Sag" on one end
so it is endless trials
just like indigenous transmission
but suspension was ready and transmission is still in trials but there is other variant for civil use

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Anon@11:00AM: Much as I would like to believe you 100% I cannot, unless you're quoting the RM during Parliament's Q & A hour.

To Anon@11:03AM: I saw the poorly reverse-engineered copies of the US-origin hydropneumatic systems with my own eyes at Avadi in late 1993.

TO Anon@11:05AM: Am aware of the Mirach/Meteor PTAs imported off-the-shelf. Nirbhay PTA/36MT turbofan combination is for sumulating subsonic cruise missile flight profiles.

Anonymous said...

heheh nirbhay isn't a PTA macha.. it is a cruise missile. you know rojak (that south east asian dish)? u are as mixed up as that.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Anon@11:19AM: Call it rojak or champur champur, you surely realise what you've just claimed: that the Nirbhay powered by as Russian turbofan is being developed as a cruise missile, with Russia in clear violation of its MTCR guidelines. Unless you also claim that the Nirbhay's range will be limited to 300km, much like the BrahMos. But then, why develop the subsonic Nirbhay when the supersonic BrahMos is available? So who's got it all rojak now?

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Anon@11:19AM: By the way, rojak is not any dish, it is a process for making various Malay cuisines. Don't get mixed up.

Anonymous said...

Dei Macha, i have been to malaysia just once while you live just north of its border and may have travelled there countless times, and yet i know whats rojak and u dont. ROJAK is a DISH, made out of vegetables, fruits all mixed in a peanut sauce. Don't believe me? goto google and type in ROJAK and read something about it. The first result in google, usually Wikipedia is accurate enough. I ate excellent vegetarian rojak in Brickfields, KL that is in front of KL-Sentral. (if it makes sense to you).

And which Sergei or Vladimir told you that Nirbhay's engine is being developed in Russia?

Proven you're really rojaked.

Anonymous said...

To Anon@11:00AM: Much as I would like to believe you 100% I cannot, unless you're quoting the RM during Parliament's Q & A hour.

Dude, you seem to be missing a lot of details lately and needlessly argueing about it. Whats with all that aggro, overwork? Take it easy yaar.


Latest Force (you should believe that at least from FH Major):

http://forceindia.net/interview.asp

We have also decided to acquire two sets of the indigenous Akash weapon system from BEL. The first firing unit will be made available on finalisation of the contract and the squadron would be commissioned after the necessary production period.

If you google for it, you'll see IAF has asked for two squadrons of Akash so anon@11:00 am is right.
Defence Minister will only say something if somebody asks him about it.

Anonymous said...

To Anon@11:03AM: I saw the poorly reverse-engineered copies of the US-origin hydropneumatic systems with my own eyes at Avadi in late 1993.

u may have seen initial attempt, but its not on present day arjun. ofb, cvrde even tried reverse engineering engine but it didnt work. basically there is always someone from user who wants drdo to reverse engineer to be "Fast"
so drdo makes half attempt and then gives it up and replaces with own item
current hydro suspesion on arjun is indianand made for indian condition
even frnch suspension was problem in indian heat lets frget other oems

TO Anon@11:05AM: Am aware of the Mirach/Meteor PTAs imported off-the-shelf. Nirbhay PTA/36MT turbofan combination is for sumulating subsonic cruise missile flight profiles.

we dont need to make a pta from scratch to make subsonic cruise missile profile simulation'
it can be done in avariety of ways which r much faster and cheaper
i think ur reading a prgrm to develop future pta and combining with pblic rprts about nirbhay
they r different pls dont get confused

cheers

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Macha@11:43AM: Before you get further 'rojaked' know the following: 1) Brickfield is not in front of KL Sentral, but KL Sentral is WITHIN the district of Brickfields. I have had an apartment 500 metres away from KL Sentral, so I guess I'll know better than you or Wikipedia. Regarding the Nirbhay's engine, do your homework and check out photos of HAL's pavilion of Aero India 2007 and MAKS 2007 where the 36MT turbofan from NPO Saturn was prominently displayed. Also check out the MoU signed between HAL & NPO Saturn during the IMDS 2005 expo in St Petersburg in the presence of President Vladimir Putin. OK macha?

Anonymous said...

ANON ABOVE

CAN U THEN BREIFLY EXPLAIN THE NIRBHAY PROGRAM? WHATS IT EXACTLY IF IT ISNT A 1000KM CRUISE MISSILE? WHYS RUSSIA INVOLVED? THANX

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Anon@11:44AM: No yaar, not overwork or anything like that. What the IAF CAS says is true. Air HQ has decided to acquire the system, but what he does not say is also equally important. He does not say what variant of the Akash will be ordered. He also does not specify who is the prime production contractor for the Akash weapon system. By mentioning only BEL's name his reply can also be interpreted like "the IAF is going ahead by first placing orders only for the Rohini radar that will form part of the Akash weapon system". I could be wrong but that's how I will interpret his statement, since BDL will be producing the missiles and the HVF will supply the armoured vehicles and OFB the wheeled vehicles. So who is the single-point prime contractor for the entire weapon system? The IAF Chief's statements do not throw any light on this issue.

Anonymous said...

Prasun, cool, hope you are ok.

Anyways, the IAF order is clearly for Mark 1 not any advanced variant or anything. In fact, there is a DRDO interview recently saying 2 of MK 1 and some of later. Will see if I can find it and post it here.

In the Indian procurement system its rare that there is one procurement authority. Since all these organizations are under the MOD, and DRDO is the coordinator, thats how it will likely continue to be. All electronics should be BEL which sources it from other guys and what not and so it is.

Anonymous said...

ayoo prasun.. nee romba sopanam kandindiruke. hehe.. ennaku sirippaa iruku.. I meant to say that the restaurant I ate in was directly opposite KL-Sentral lah macha.. I know KL-Sentral itself is in brickfields. You know when you come out of the side exit of Kl-Sentral, walk straight past the stalls in canopy, then cross the road got many shops? Adjacent to the monorail station? I ate rojak there lah macha. And what I ate was a dish called rojak. If you stayed in KL you should know that for sure, as Rojak is available at almost every nook and corner of PJ and KL. I advise you to read up on it or order a plate of it next time. if you want vegetarian ones i can recommend you 2 places. rombha suvaiya irruku. naan recommendation kudukiren un kitte.

And what I heard 36MT turbofans were only bought for use on the development stage and not for final usage. DRDO's developing their own engine. This im not quite sure of but is based on what i heard. you are free to correct me by explaining more on your theory.

To note just b'coz i m asking doesnt mean i m rojaked about Nirbhay as defense isnt my niche.

Vanakkam

Anonymous said...

to prasun

what happened to that technology that drdo just invented which will increase the range of missiles by
40%,is akaash subjected to this tech and will this tech increase the range of akaash over 40km

Anonymous said...

And nanba, neenga entha apartment la thangiruthe.. 500m away from KL-Sentral ennaku theringe ore apartment vanthu Palm Court.. correct? or maybe something along that row a few more can't remember the name.. like there's one in front of the Church adjacent to the La Salle school. atha?

Anonymous said...

http://www.hindu.com/2008/07/16/stories/2008071655651400.htm



National Printer Friendly Page Send this Article to a Friend

Air Force places orders for Akash missile production

T.S. Subramaniam

This follows a 10-day successful drill in December 2007

— Photo: Ramesh Sharma

A file photo of the Akash missiles on display.

CHENNAI: The Indian Air Force (IAF) has placed orders for the production of Akash, a surface-to-air missile, developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

The orders have been placed in the wake of a 10-day successful drill in December 2007 that involved the launch of several Akash missiles by its user, the IAF, from the Integrated Test Range at Chandipur-on-sea, Orissa.

Prahlada, Chief Controller, R&D, DRDO, said the IAF placed “initial orders for some squadrons” of the Akash missile and that “the orders will continue.”

http://www.india-defence.com/reports-3835

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has decided to induct two squadrons of the indigenous Akash Surface-to-Air Missile (SAM). The all-weather, multi-target missile was accepted by the IAF recently after nine successful field trials, including a ripple fire in the electronic clutter, according to Dr Prahlada (uses only one name), Distinguished Scientist and Chief Controller in the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

The orders would come in lots.
Mr. Prahlada said he was happy over the development on two counts. First, this might pave the way for the Army to place orders for Akash. Second, during field and user trials, the performance of the Akash missile was comparable to the best in the surface-to-air missile class in the world. The missile demonstrated its consistency, accuracy and easy operability.

In user trials last December, “a real C4I (that is, command, control, communication, computer and intelligence) was integrated in the Akash and demonstrated in field conditions,” Mr. Prahlada said. It was a totally automated operation too.

“The Akash is an anti-aircraft missile with a launch weight of 720 kg, a length of 5.8 metres and a diameter of 35 cm. It can reach aircraft flying 25 km away. It uses solid propellants as fuel. It can handle multiple targets by means of a digitally coded command and guidance system.”

Anonymous said...

it is some 'pine' if not mistaken..

Anonymous said...

"pine"

That is for Israeli BMD . Akash uses the BCC and GCC. See the posters.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Macha@12:11PM: Vanakkam anae. The canopy stalls went away 2 months ago and the carpark in front of KL Sentral is the place where a new shopping mall is coming up. In Malaysia rojak is like a common word used to describe both mixed ice-blended cocktail drinks or even mixed vegetable food. The Chinese call it Curry Laksa. Regarding the Nirbhay's Russian 36MT turbofan, NPO Saturn of Russia and HAL inked the deal under which HAL will service the turbofans. The engines will come off-the-shelf. The reason why the turbofan is being imported is because the DRDO's Bangalore-based GTRE has not yet been given the funds for developing a new-generation turbofan. I don't know why on earth the DRDO is not allowing the GTRE to develop such a small turbofan when GTRE has already developed the much bigger Kaveri turbofan. And as to whether the Nirbhay will be an operational cruise missile or just an unmanned vehicle simulating cruise missile flightpaths, it has to be the latter since the Russians won't allow their 36MT turbofans to be used even for prototype development of any cruise missile, due to the MTCR.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Anon@12:19PM: One is Palm Court, the other is the Pines Condominium. Then there's also Crescent Court.

Anonymous said...

Prasun, rombha kolapamaa irruku.

Thanks for that current info about the stalls. I know in Malay Rojak as a figure of speach means all mixed up, or namba bahsaile "kolapam".. correct? but actually rojak is a seperate food of mixed vege and fruits with a sauce over. Thats why Malaysians associate mixed up with Rojak coz rojak is a mix of many things.

Curry Laksa (or curry mee) is a kind of noodle dish with coconut milk (thenga paal) curry soup. Also very tasty. Curry laksa is not rojak. If you wanna see what curry laksa or rojak looks like google image search will help. The ice blended cocktail you described must be Ice Kacang or ABC isn't it? it is also not "rojak".

OK since neega romba adamentaa irruke please have a personal challenge. Please go to a restaurant in Malaysia and order "rojak" - see what you get.

Then order "curry laksa" - see what you get.

If i'm right go knock your head 3 times. agree aa thambi? Ithu of course oru personal challenge but I'm sure of what I'm saying. I think you have not eaten these dishes hence you don't know.

Correct.. Pines. So which were u in? Pines, PC or CC? Palm court is the one with a Vegetarian Iyer restaurant on its ground floor isn't it?

Anonymous said...

And thambi, not to forget thanks for info about the Nirbhay.

And yeppudi thambi, use a Kaveri aircraft engine in a cruise missile?

I'm calling u thambi yean na neenga than ena 'anne' ne koopte, ok ah? no offence ah..

Anonymous said...

to prasun

what about EX TANK any detail

Anonymous said...

anon@12:26:00 PM

No sir, I am talking about an apartment called Pines that is in Malaysia. Nothing to do with the radar for PAD / AAD.

Prasun K Sengupta said...

To Anon@12:45PM: Am not in Palm Court or Pines. Got an apartment in Shaw Court, the one with the circular penthouses at the top to the left of KL Sentral. Yes, broadly speaking, rojak is the generic term and figure of speech meaning mixture, if you want mixed cuisines, whether Malay or Chinese.

Anonymous said...

Thambi, konjum konjum nyabagatille irruku.. isn't that the white one with around 7 or 8 round penthouses on top? I guess there are 3 blocks right? Visible from Federal Highway isn't it? a bit blur but can somewhat remember.. I never went that side hence dont know where is the entrance to that apartment. I guess somewhere behind YMCA and the tennis courts?

And maybe you forgot to answer.. how to use an aircraft angine (Kaveri) in a small cruise missile as you suggested?

Anonymous said...

Oo I think maybe its entrance is somewhere in front of the train tracks?

trisha said...

To Anon: 11:11:00 AM

I never said Kirloskar is BAD. Their pumps are reasonably popular in UAE and to some extant US and Europe. All I mean to say is that they are spoilt by government. Kirloskar is a 'for-profit' company. When govt gives them a contract to manufacture stuff, which they know will never slip off their hands under almost any circumstance, will they dedicate utmost priority on that contract? No. They rather dedicate their priority to more pressing issues and this becomes secondary.

Anyway this is just based on what Sengupta said about those reverse engineered parts. I just took his word for it.

So bottom line is I don't blame kirloskar all in all. Its management by the government which sucks big time.

You see we gotta faggot PM who has no interest in our armed forces. I know he's good in economic stuff and education but for us to exist amongst the bastards around us we need a strong army. The faggot is not vocal enough. He always wants to go the 'peace' route. We know what the peace route brought us in antiquity. Due to weak army Mughals overran us and contributed to our downfall from the largest economy in the world at that time. It also caused greater India to be split-up as it is today. British then came and sacked us. Now we gotta 2nd chance. With Faggot Singh history is gonna repeat itself. Nex year I'm going back to vote BJP only they can bring change. Congress is no more what it was under Indira Gandhi. Mamata and Mayawati bitches can go and die. Same goes to the Chinese Carrots (Karat) of CPI.

Don't worry I'm not Advani in disguise here LOL. Just some rantings.

To Macha/Anne... are u my fan?? En figure-a pudikumma? LOL

Anonymous said...

Hehe Trisha un figure super.. rombha pudichiruku aana un over acting style pudikilai..
Kollywoodle enodum #1 choice vanthu Shriya... un main competitor hehe..

Ok man cut this out or else Prasun will get mad and offended... lets stick to the topic... ok?

Prasun K Sengupta said...

Relax....having a little fun & LOL is fine by me. I never said the Kaveri turbofan can fit into a cruise missile. All I said was if the GTRE can develop a turbofan like Kaveri, then surely it can also develop a much smaller and less complicated turbofan for any kind of cruise missile.

RAJ said...

Chances of BLR-3 being AESA are very remote

Anonymous said...

it only exists in this idiot senguptas fertile imagination. i just came back from AI a few days back where they showed the PESA based WLR-3. all of them were laughing their ass off when i told on the internet there is a genius who is saying it is AESA.

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